User talk:Spider of Destiny

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Revision as of 17:35, 11 December 2010 by Maroual (talk | contribs) (→‎Time Out: new section)
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Welcome

Hello Spider of Destiny and welcome to the Wiki Jawaka,

Many thanks for your contributions.

I learned a lot of things from your edits, you seem to have a wide culture.

As you probably noticed, I made a few changes following yours.

This in order to comply with the general philosophy we are trying to maintain here.

So I will have only a few remarks regarding your forthcoming changes, if you are open to suggestions:

  • Could you please try to add links to the Wikipedia everywhere relevant? For many subjects, the Wiki Jawaka do not pretend to become the final reference. As well, I always prefer the idea of any page here to become a starting point, instead of the final page with no more links, if you see what I mean.
  • Instead of simply putting the first occurence of the page title in bold (the name of somebody, Ronald Reagan for instance), although the result will be the same, we usually prefer to put it into Wiki brackets, as if it was a link.
  • In your articles, could you please try to focus as much as possible on relations to Zappa. Please do not get me wrong, I do appreciate what you did. But for instance, the sentence mentionning there was a Godzilla remake in 1998 may help to avoid confusion with former stuff. However the fact the remake disappointed many fans is likely out of this Wiki scope.
  • Please try to fit in the existing templates as much as possible. I recognize that, we sometimes overrode them without always updating the template pages. They were created in order to accelerate edition, as well as to keep a consistent layout in the Wiki.

Okay, I stop bothering you ;-)

Have a nice weekend.

Maroual 01:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Spider of Destiny,

Indeed, I share your opinions about articles such as Bruce Springsteen, Ella Fitzgerald or John & Yoko.

I would say there is no particular policy here regarding articles deletions or merging. You just need to convince the most active members and administrators (Duncan, Emdebe, KillUglyRadio aka Barry, Propellerkuh and myself) that your actions are good and acceptable for the majority.

This is often an informal process. For instance, when I start a 'campaign', I usually start with a few examples. Then I submit a question or a discussion on the other administrators' pages, always leaving the possibility to rollback the changes. And if they like it or don't care, then I continue.

Regarding the articles mentionned above, I think there is no big risk if you delete or merge them, by the time you make sure not to leave any dead links (by clicking on the What links here option in the toolbox on the left side).

Now this could be a different story with the Conceptual Continuity (CC) articles. I have no particular objection myself, however I think you should rather have this discussion with the oldest members and founders of this Wiki (Duncan, Emdebe and KillUglyRadio aka Barry). The structure and essence of the CC articles was initiated by them (Emdebe mainly) before I start contributing. And these guys had their own philosophy of a CC network at the time. So I think you should obtain their approval or understand what they were trying to do before attempting anything.

Maroual 22:50, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

One more thing, could you please respect this syntax :

Title first use in the eponym article

Please prefer: 

"[[Freaks]]"

instead of: 

'''"Freaks"'''

Links to the Wikipedia

==See Also==

*[[wikipedia:XXXXXXX|Wikipedia article on XXXXXXX]]

Links to the sister Wikipedia are a bit more than just 'External links' ;-)


Thanks :-)

Maroual 23:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Wiki links

Hi Spider,

I just fixed your link to the Wikipedia on the Brian May page.

You do not need to put the full URL otherwise it would be a loss of time.

I changed 

[[wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_May|Wikipedia article on Brian May]]

to 

[[wikipedia:Brian_May|Wikipedia article on Brian May]]

Cheers

Maroual 22:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality in articles

Hi Spider,

I made a few changes in the article about Muhammar Khadaffi‎.

It is important to respect a neutral point of view.

Tschuss

Maroual 22:26, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Maroual.

I don't mind the change from "dictator" to "leader", but technically Khadaffi is a dictator, since he took power by force. "Human Rights Watch" lists his regime as a dictatorship.

Tschuss to you (Are you Austrian/German/Swiss ? ;) )

User:Spider of Destiny 23:30 5 December 2010 (UTC).

Well, don't get me wrong, the purpose is to try to maintain a certain quality level, as well as to stay out of controversies.

It is unanimely admitted that Khadaffi governs this country, so in this case the word 'leader' seems appropriate.

However, in order to use a word such as 'dictator' or 'dictatorship', we'd better always cite a source as you just did.

Otherwise it is like writing down our own opinions, and a Wiki just cannot implicitely endorse its contributor's opinions.

The fact that I agree or not with you has nothing to do with it.

Just take a look at the Wikipedia articles, they almost never refer to contemporary heads of state as dictators.

Also, according to journalists, the supposedly financed terrorist activities were not limited to a specific category of fanatics.

There have also been accusations on supporting various european groups (revolutionary military organisations, nationalist and separatist organisations, Marxist-Leninist militant groups, etc.)

Actually these few words above are just ism schism.

This is not the purpose of this Wiki's smallest articles to talk about these matters in a few lines.

And nope ;-) I am a Frenchie who just like to salute using different languages.

Sorry for this long answer, I wish I was capable of doing it shorter.

じゃ、またね。

Maroual 22:21, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

References

I am troubled by some of the changes you have been introducing which seem to be clouding rather than clarifying what is already a murky pool. Specifically could you refrain from using References to list points where Zappa has referred to a topic/lyric etc. References should be used for citing sources; these oblique mentions could be listed under See also or Mentioned in or somesuch. Duncan 22:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

All I wanted to do was list a few topics related to one specific country on one page. So that it would be easier to track down certain people, tours, interviews and locations that all refer to the same country. I did this because at this moment users are unable to find out how many articles exist about certain tours and concerts Zappa gave in a certain country? It would be handy if they were listed on one page.

And since I was listing locations I thought it would be interesting to add people from those particular countries as well, including musical references Zappa might have made about that country. I admit that this last decision might be a bit too trivial, but I thought it might be interesting for users who live in that specific country. Also, if I really wanted to push the envelope I could've added every single quote Zappa ever made about a certain country, but to me that would go a bit to far. Especially since these comments should of course be seen in the context of the time the interview was conducted. That's why I didn't add those things.

My only intention was and is to put main articles about a certain country on one page and to add other main articles related to that specific nation.

User:Spider of Destiny 23:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Grateful Dead vs Jack Nicholson ???

Hello Spider of Destiny,

I am perplex after seeing some of your last contributions.

You emptied the Grateful Dead article, then renamed it Jack Nicholson and filled in information about Jack Nicholson.

Instead, you should rather have deleted the Grateful Dead article, then just redirected all the dead links to The Grateful Dead. Because now in some articles (Frank Kofsky interviews FZ for instance), clicking on Grateful Dead redirects to Jack Nicholson.

Now regarding Jack Nicholson, there is little if no relations with Frank Zappa. As you mentionned, he co-wrote and produced the movie Head and the The Yellow Shark liner notes mention he had "very special but no less significant contributions". But there is no need to create a dedicated article if we cannot write complete paragraphs about the relations between Frank Zappa and Jack Nicholson, citing sources, etc. Head and The Yellow Shark articles can just mention his name with a link to the Wikipedia page, this is way sufficient.

I will clean this.

In the past, we had long discussions with Duncan and Emdebe regarding similar stuff. The debate was contents vs structure. And the conclusion was that we decided to write less articles with more contents and quality instead of writing many small articles having many links with many categories.

Cheers

Maroual 00:06, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

There are two articles about The Grateful Dead. One The Grateful Dead is the good one, full of information and every link leads to this article. Then, inexplicably another, Grateful Dead, with no articles leading to that one. I've checked. There are no articles linked to "Grateful Dead", only "The Grateful Dead". Therefore there will be no redirect-problems between "Grateful Dead" and Jack Nicholson since they don't exist.

Then my change to Jack Nicholson. I've sent a mail to "Barry" with questions about deleting articles, but he hasn't answered yet. So, I decided: "If I can't delete "Grateful Dead", I might as well rename it to a new article. Especially since all the other articles that refer to The Grateful Dead automatically refer to "The Grateful Dead"."

And to conclude: I've searched the Internet for more information about Nicholson. It seems logical that Nicholson might be a Zappa fan and therefore made a contribution to The Yellow Shark project. However, since Nicholson apparently selthom gives interviews, left alone about his musical preferences, I could not find any proof for this assumption. Therefore the article is indeed a bit short.

I don't mind that you delete an article with very little information relating to Zappa, but I've already noticed dozens of articles who are equally short or even empty. Most of them from Category:The Real Frank Zappa Book (The List), where apparently even one mention of Joseph Goebbels in that book is enough to start an article about this person on this wiki. That's just one example, but there are many others. So can you blame me for believing that one link with Zappa is enough to start an article about something?

Cheers,

Spider Of Destiny 1:23 12 December 2010 (CC)

Time Out

Well I dunno how you checked but the following articles are linking to Grateful Dead :

So, yes, all of these, have been temporarily linking to Jack Nicholson.

And although Barry did not answer, renaming the page was actually not the right choice.


If it was only me, there would not be a category such as Category:The Real Frank Zappa Book (The List).

Instead there would be just a simple article with a list and most items linking to the Wikipedia.

Whatever, we can speculate about Nicholson's musical preferences and so on, but if there is no proof, then it is difficult to start any article with no matter... unless you have hundreds of clues that you can cite and that allow you pulling conclusions.


I don't blame it on you, but these last days, I spent a lot of time here trying as well as failing to monitor your edits.


First, could you please comply with our recommendations regarding the links to the Wikipedia and external sites?

We just do not have enough time on our hands to follow your steps fixing all of these.


As well, could you please focus you efforts on contents rather than trying to reorganize our mess?

Yes, there is a real need to reorganize, but it cannot be done going blindly ahead.


If you continue this way, your account will likely be disabled, all your efforts be discouraged and you will be disappointed and angry towards us.

If you have suggestions and nobody answers, maybe it is time to slow down a little bit and think about all this in front of a cup of coffee.


नमस्कार

Maroual 01:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

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