Talk:You Didn't Try To Call Me

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Revision as of 09:56, 10 December 2007 by Fishbrain (talk | contribs) (???)
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I was going to have a link to the lyrics for each version but I am now tempted to split each version onto it's own page...

-Recording Details

-Players

-Included on

-Lyrics

....that kind of thing.

Thoughts?

Duncan 10:47, 22 Aug 2007 (PDT)


Sound good to split as you propose, I guess the next step is to define the pages titles.

Should this be:

or

Knowing that we could temporarily use names such as:

Might be hard sometimes to give a name to some tracks built from several tapes pieces including different studio recordings, overdubs and live solos, etc. But we have to find it out anyway...

Maroual 02:48, 23 Aug 2007 (PDT)


I see a lot of potential, and a lot of work... We definitely need "disambiguation pages" ("You Didn't Try To Call Me") that can lead you to the "versions pages"

...
Reference to the album is IMHO a prerequisite to help the unsuspecting browser...
Good point about "combined versions"; mentioning 1 or 2 years could be OK; mentioning 5, 6 or more is NOK...
--Emdebe 10:18, 23 Aug 2007 (PDT)


Awrighty, following our discussion on Talk:Trouble_Every_Day, I decided to demonstrate you my thoughts on the whole several-versions-per-song issue in a more practical way. So I made updates to You Didn't Try To Call Me, You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - Los Angeles) and You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - San Francisco).

A few notes on the first page, however: I agree with Emdebe that, for the "unsuspecting browser" a reference to the album is more important than where and when the song was recorded. I also thought that it is not strictly necessary to list all albums for each version on this page (especially since the albums are given on the respective pages for the versions). So, in order to keep the "disambiguation page" (IF that is what we want to call it) both concise and user-friendly, I'd prefer a system like 

You Didn't Try To Call Me (Freak Out! Version)
recorded: Los Angeles, 1966

over 

You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - Los Angeles)
*Included on
**Freak Out!
**The ---- Of The Mothers
**The Worst Of The Mothers
**The Old Masters, Box I
**The MOFO Project/Object
**The MOFO Project/Object (Deluxe Edition)
***Instrumental basic backing track included on:
***The MOFO Project/Object
***The MOFO Project/Object (Deluxe Edition)

Similarly, I don't think that You Didn't Try To Call Me (1982-1983 - Los Angeles) deserves its own page. Instead it should be included to You Didn't Try To Call Me (1967-1968 - New York), since it's still the same recording.

One may also argue if every bootleg version deserves its own page. In the case of You Didn't Try To Call Me I'd say yes because both You Didn't Try To Call Me (1967 - Stockholm) and You Didn't Try To Call Me (1970 - Paris) are quite different from the studio recordings. But we shouldn't generalise this for all songs. In our previous discussion, for example, I asked you about RDNZL, since there are clearly more "recordings" of that song than there are actual "versions" of it. That's why I'm against giving "RDNZL (Piquantique Version)" a separate page, for example. Instead it should be included in "RDNZl (Lost Episodes Version)" since it shares all the formal characteristics of that version.

These are just my thoughts on the subject. I wanted to open to this discussion in the forum but I don't have an account and for some reason it says that registering is currently disabled. Anyway, once we've come to an agreement on this, I think it's absolutely crucial that we include our decisions to the wiki guidelines (just like models for the track and album pages since their structure still differ from article to article).

Please let me know your thoughts on my five-and-a-half pence here, and the changes I made to You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - Los Angeles) and You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - San Francisco) (especially the way I linked back to this page here, and what I did to the "notes on this song" section).

--Fishbrain 17:25, 5 December 2007 (PST)


Hey, just thought of something! Just forget about my previously suggested system: 

You Didn't Try To Call Me (Freak Out! Version)
recorded: Los Angeles, 1966

I realised that it's far more convenient to do it like this: 

===Freak Out! Version===
*You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - Los Angeles)

The reason for this is that when you have songs that are split up into several tracks some some albums, like: 

===Lumpy Gravy Version===
*King Kong (1967 - Hollywood)

===Uncle Meat Version===
*Prelude To King Kong
*King Kong Itself (As Played By The Mothers In A Studio)
*King Kong (It's Magnificence As Interpreted By Don DeWild)
*King Kong (As Motorhead Explains It)
*King Kong (The Gardner Varieties)
*King Kong (As Played By 3 Deranged Good Humor Trucks)
*King Kong (Live On A Flat Bed Diesel In The Middle Of A Race Track At A Miami Pop Festival)

===Chunga's Revenge Version===
*The Nancy & Mary Music

===You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 3===
*King Kong (1971+1988 - ???)

Or even: 

===Apostrophe (') Version===
*Don't Eat The Yellow Snow (1973 - ???)
*Nanook Rubs It (1973 - ???)
*St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast (1973 - ???)
*Father O'Blivion (1973 - ???)

===You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1===
*Don't Eat The Yellow Snow (1979 - ???)

You can still implement them easily into this system.

Poofter's Froth Wyoming Plans Ahead!

--Fishbrain 18:09, 5 December 2007 (PST)


And another thought, this time about the question whether we should mark pages like this one as "disambiguation pages" or not. Arguments so far were that they sort of disambiguate between the different versions of the song, but don't really disambiguate between separate items (like, for example The Grand Wazoo (Album), The Grand Wazoo (Track), The Grand Wazoo (CC)). But what if we call them "indices" (e.g. You Didn't Try To Call Me (Index)).

I think this would be a good naming convention. In the long run, it might become difficult to set up an index page (I'll just call them that from now on, for simplicity's sake) and just call it, for example, You Didn't Try To Call Me. I think there will be problems with tracks that share their name with an album (again, like The Grand Wazoo). It's always better to have a consistent naming convention than a patchy mess of different page names, depending on various external factors. So:

Index page: You Didn't Try To Call Me (Index) (with a redirect page on You Didn't Try To Call Me where appropriate)
Version 1: You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - Los Angeles)
Version 2: You Didn't Try To Call Me (1966 - San Francisco)
etc...

This system for all other songs? Yea or nay? It's AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION TIME!

--Fishbrain 05:56, 7 December 2007 (PST)


Doesn't anyone else want to comment on this issue? One would imagine that this is a crucial question for the future of this wiki...

--Fishbrain 09:56, 10 December 2007 (PST)

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