Talk:Freak Out!

From Zappa Wiki Jawaka
Revision as of 06:32, 13 July 2007 by Duncan (talk | contribs)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Refs to FZ's first wife refer to Kay Sherman, as does FZ in TRFZB. So is Kaye Sherman a typo on FO cover or someone else entirely?

FO is full of typos, so... --Emdebe 08:57, 30 May 2005 (PDT)

Table based Versions section = cool!

I don't know who came up with the idea for a table-based "Versions" section (was it Maroual?) but it's looking very very cool. Kudos! If possible, we should do it like this on all album pages, no? - KillUglyRadio 01:25, 16 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Release dates, ways to cite sources and External Links

Emdebe recently underlined that we need to cite our sources. I guess this might be a good opportunity in order to gain more credit.

However I also have to underline that:

  • I do not particularly trust the release dates and numbers published in the ZFT Official Discography. And I do not think we need to discuss on every page about how they sometimes change the release dates/release order. Should we use the first observed shipping date or the deadlines the ZFT use in their past and future roadmaps ? In the last version (see last .pdf available at zappa.com - The Official Frank Zappa Website), they simply removed London Symphony Orchestra Vol. I which was previously release #38 and then they shifted (sometimes worse) the following numbers until #48. Also they are they only people in the world to say that WOIIFTM was released in September 1968...
  • We need to follow consistent format and style, this is what I attempted to do with Anchors in the Article page Notes section. Any comment is welcome ;-) For any reason it was not possible to apply the Wikipedia guidelines described in Wikipedia:Citing sources & Wikipedia:Footnotes
  • I always prefer to redirect to the External Links page rather than directly pointing to the site URL. So we have only one place to update in the case of any Internet address change.

Maroual 16:35, 6 Mar 2006 (PST)

Release Notes/Page Layout

Surely what we have under Release Notes are Credits for the album. Why do we have (for example) photographer listed at the top of the page while the musicians are buried lower down the page?

Duncan 10:54, 15 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Somebody started with this layout (Barry?). I'm not that happy with it either. I would like to see: Tracks / Players / Release Notes / Liner Notes / Background Information / Conceptual Continuity / Versions. --Emdebe 11:19, 15 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Mmmh. I guess the top of the page should focus on synthetic and visual information like the original cover picture, and why not a summary or the musical styles/genre. Emdebe, this new order proposal looks good.
Maroual 14:02, 15 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Cover on the right?

Can we move the cover image to the right and have the text flow down the left like at wikipedia:Freak Out!?

Duncan 22:58, 15 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Fine with me. --Emdebe 02:17, 16 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Eh eh eh. I have to confess this is exactly what I have been trying to do since weeks... but I just don't know how to put the cover on the right BEFORE the TOC! If anybody knows how to do this please go on, you are welcome ;-) Maroual 13:42, 16 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Do we need the TOC? It clutters the page, while being the same on each and every every page... --Emdebe 15:09, 16 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Album title & Next

The album title is displayed on the page, on the album picture, and in the image caption... Wouldn't it be better to put "Next" in the image caption? We know what album we're looking at, and it takes less real estate... --Emdebe 14:09, 17 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Forget it: we'll have trouble with Previous/Next entries (does not work in caption)... --Emdebe 14:25, 17 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Tracks Timing

Original comments from Ladoze:

  1. Some big differences (from 1 to 26 seconds !) in the tracks timing have to be noted between the First LP release "MGM Verve V6-5005-2" and the timing noted at the top of the page (also different from the MOFO CD#1 version). For example, the very first release of Freak Out always have the shortest timing except for Trouble Every Day. You'll see below the timing given by our Wiki jawaka page, the first LP version, and the MOFO CD#1 version...
  1. Hungry Freaks, Daddy (03:29)(03:27)(03:33)
  2. I Ain't Got No Heart (02:35)(02:30)(02:35)
  3. Who Are The Brain Police? (03:33)(03:22)(03:26)
  4. Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder (03:41)(03:31)(03:43)
  5. Motherly Love (02:46)(02:45)(02:50)
  6. How Could I Be Such A Fool (02:13)(02:12)(02:17)
  7. Wowie Zowie (02:53)(02:45)(02:56)
  8. You Didn't Try To Call Me (03:19)(03:17)(03:22)
  9. Any Way The Wind Blows (02:56)(02:52)(02:56)
 10. I'm Not Satisfied (02:39)(02:37)(02:42)
 11. You're Probably Wondering Why I'm Here (03:38)(03:37)(03:42)
 12. Trouble Every Day (05:50)(06:16)(05:53)
 13. Help, I'm A Rock (Suite In Three Movements) (08:40)(08:37)'(04:43)
        1. "Okay To Tap Dance"
        2. "In Memoriam Edgar Varese"
        3. "It Can't Happen Here" (03:59)> only on the MOFO CD#1 version
 14. The Return Of The Son Of Monster Magnet (12:19)(12:17)(12:23)

Okay Ladoze,

You are completely right, and actually this implies a complete revision of the timings on every page.
Here is what I got (yes, I know I am a bit extremist sometimes):

Track LP CD MOFO
V6-5005-2 CDZAP 1 RCD 40062 RCD 10501 /
RCD 40582/1 		ZR 20004 (CD1) /
ZR 20005 (CD1)
Printed Actual Printed Actual Printed Actual Printed Actual Printed Actual
Hungry Freaks, Daddy 3:27
  		n/a
  		?
  		3:29
(3'29"33) 		?
  		3:30
(3'29"60) 		3:27
  		3:29
(3'29"35) 		3:33
  		3:33
(3'32"66)
I Ain't Got No Heart 2:30
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:35
(2'35"27) 		?
  		2:35
(2'35"25) 		2:33
  		2:35
(2'35"25) 		2:35
  		2:35
(2'34"64)
Who Are The Brain Police? 3:22
  		n/a
  		?
  		3:33
(3'33"20) 		?
  		3:33
(3'33"47) 		3:33
  		3:33
(3'33"45) 		3:26
  		3:26
(3'25"62)
Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder 3:31
  		n/a
  		?
  		3:41
(3'41"00) 		?
  		3:40
(3'40"48) 		3:39
  		3:41
(3'40"50) 		3:43
  		3:43
(3'43"08)
Motherly Love 2:45
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:45
(2'45"43) 		?
  		2:45
(2'45"45) 		2:43
  		2:45
(2'45"42) 		2:50
  		2:50
(2'50"06)
How Could I Be Such A Fool 2:12
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:13
(2'13"22) 		?
  		2:13
(2'13"22) 		2:11
  		2:13
(2'13"23) 		2:17
  		2:16
(2'16"37)
Wowie Zowie 2:45
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:53
(2'53"28) 		?
  		2:53
(2'53"25) 		2:51
  		2:53
(2'53"27) 		2:56
  		2:55
(2'55"10)
You Didn't Try To Call Me 3:17
  		n/a
  		?
  		3:19
(3'18"57) 		?
  		3:19
(3'18"60) 		3:16
  		3:19
(3'18"60) 		3:22
  		3:21
(3'21"47)
Any Way The Wind Blows 2:52
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:56
(2'55"60) 		?
  		2:56
(2'55"60) 		2:54
  		2:56
(2'55"60) 		2:56
  		2:55
(2'55"37)
I'm Not Satisfied 2:37
  		n/a
  		?
  		2:39
(2'38"63) 		?
  		2:39
(2'39"13) 		2:38
  		2:39
(2'38"65) 		2:42
  		2:41
(2'41"33)
You're Probably Wondering Why I'm Here 3:37
  		n/a
  		?
  		3:38
(3'38"12) 		?
  		3:38
(3'38"12) 		3:38
  		3:38
(3'38"10) 		3:42
  		3:41
(3'41"25)
Trouble Every Day 6:16
  		n/a
  		?
  		5:50
(5'50"03) 		?
  		5:50
(5'50"05) 		5:49
  		5:50
(5'50"03) 		5:53
  		5:53
(5'53"03)
Help, I'm A Rock (Suite In Three Movements) 8:37
  		n/a
  		?
  		8:39
(8'39"40) 		?
  		8:39
(8'39"13) 		4:43
  		4:43
(4'43"15) 		4:43
  		4:42
(4'42"23)
It Can't Happen Here n/a
  		n/a
  		n/a
  		n/a
  		n/a
  		n/a
  		3:55
  		3:56
(3'56"42) 		3:59
  		3:59
(3'59"04)
The Return Of The Son Of Monster Magnet 12:17
  		n/a
  		?
  		12:19
(12'19"05) 		?
  		12:19
(12'19"17) 		12:16
  		12:17
(12'17"18) 		12:23
  		12:22
(12'22"29)
Total time None n/a ? 60:30
(60'29"63) 		? 60:30
(60'30"02) 		None 60:30
(60'29"70) 		60:57 60:54
(60'54"79)

Remarks:

  • The CDZAP 1 and RCD 40062 detailed cue sheets come from the excellent wolf's kompaktkiste.
  • I obtained the other timings from my own records.
  • The actual LP timings are not mentionned because they would be too hard to obtain.
  • I did not sum up the timings written on the back covers in order to avoid summing up errors due to timings rounded to the second.

Conclusions:

  • The timings shown today on the wiki jawaka page have no meaning, I suspect they could come from CDZAP 1 or RCD 40062 back cover. Only Barry know.
  • It seems that MOFO (CD1) might have 24 seconds of extra sound material... or could be pitched a bit slower, err I dunno. But we definitely have to investigate more about this.
  • We should define clear rules about which timing is to be shown on each album's page, keeping in mind that (1) the actual LP timings would be hard to obtain and (2) the printed timings are always wrong.

Maroual 15:59, 15 Apr 2007 (PDT)


=====

Hi Maroual,

Looking at the listings at...

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/frank_zappa/freak_out__f5/

they include an 8 track cartridge version! RCOA-33969-8

Never seen that listed anywhere else.

Duncan 07:32, 13 Jul 2007 (PDT)

Retrieved from "http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/index.php?title=Talk:Freak_Out!&oldid=18014"