Zappa, 79/8 - Revision history

Spider of Destiny at 17:33, 10 August 2026

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Jason.Kreitzer at 13:26, 4 October 2021

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Jason.Kreitzer at 13:47, 10 September 2021

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Jason.Kreitzer at 17:49, 8 September 2021

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Jason.Kreitzer at 02:43, 22 July 2021

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Jason.Kreitzer at 21:53, 14 July 2021

2021-07-14T21:53:27Z

Duncan: Pettiford link to Wikipedia

2021-01-07T10:11:18Z

Pettiford link to Wikipedia

Spider of Destiny at 20:13, 17 November 2020

2020-11-17T20:13:39Z

Spider of Destiny at 04:49, 31 December 2015

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Show changes

Spider of Destiny at 14:36, 3 January 2012

2012-01-03T14:36:38Z

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 '''Musician: Speaking of weird, one of the great rock and roll myths of all-time involves a [[The Infamous Shit-Eating-On-Stage Contest|gross-out contest]] which allegedly took place onstage between you and [[Captain Beefheart]]. Could you please clarify that once and for all?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' Yeah, I've heard that myth in many different guises. It's supposed to be me versus [[The Fugs]], me versus somebody in the audience – but always I end up eating shit on the stage. You know, the first time I heard this rumor, I was in a club in England called the [[ The Speakeasy Club, UK|Speakeasy]], which used to be a music business hangout in the 60s. I'm sitting there and this guy from the Flock – remember the Flock? – comes over to me and goes, "Hey, Frank. Man, it's really great to meet ya. Hey, I heard about the gross-out contest and that's really fantastic the way you ate that shit!" I said, "Man, I never ate any shit onstage!!" And he goes, "You didn't? Aww." And then he walked away – fuckin' broken-hearted, you know. I mean, people want to believe this. I'll tell you, the closest I ever came to eating shit was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
+'''Zappa:''' Yeah, I've heard that myth in many different guises. It's supposed to be me versus [[The Fugs]], me versus somebody in the audience – but always I end up eating shit on the stage. You know, the first time I heard this rumor, I was in a club in England called the [[The Speakeasy Club, UK|Speakeasy]], which used to be a music business hangout in the 60s. I'm sitting there and this guy from the Flock – remember the Flock? – comes over to me and goes, "Hey, Frank. Man, it's really great to meet ya. Hey, I heard about the gross-out contest and that's really fantastic the way you ate that shit!" I said, "Man, I never ate any shit onstage!!" And he goes, "You didn't? Aww." And then he walked away – fuckin' broken-hearted, you know. I mean, people want to believe this. I'll tell you, the closest I ever came to eating shit was at a [[Holiday Inn]] buffet in Fayetteville, [[North Carolina]].
 [[Category:Interviews with Zappa]]
 [[Category:1979]]

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 The Mothers moved operations to New York City and answered Haight-Ashbury, Sgt. Pepper's, and the whole flower power hippy movement with the 1968 release [[We're Only In It For The Money]], which included "[[Flower Punk]]" (a take-off on "Hey Joe") and "[[Who Needs The Peace Corps?]]": ''"I'm hippy and I'm trippy, I'm a gypsy on my own; I'll stay a week and get the crabs, and take a bus back home. I'm really just a phony, but forgive me 'cause I'm stoned."''
-Before moving back to California in 1969 ("because it's expedient to the business"), the Mothers played a now-famous stint at New York's [[Garrick Theater]], lasting several months, in which they became notorious for their onstage "atrocities," such as conducting marriages onstage, having people from the audience get up and make speeches, and their collection of props – including a stuffed giraffe rigged up to ejaculate whipped cream into the front three or four rows.
+Before moving back to California in 1969 ("because it's expedient to the business"), the Mothers played a now-famous stint at New York's [[Garrick Theatre|Garrick Theater]], lasting several months, in which they became notorious for their onstage "atrocities," such as conducting marriages onstage, having people from the audience get up and make speeches, and their collection of props – including a stuffed giraffe rigged up to ejaculate whipped cream into the front three or four rows.
 What has remained most consistent with Zappa over the years, and what has puzzled many listeners from Freak Out onward, is Zappa's acerbic sense of humor – something that is lacking in so much of today's music. Throughout his recorded catalog – and the personnel changes which have seen now-established musicians like [[George Duke]], [[Jean-Luc Ponty]], [[Ian Underwood]], [[Don "Sugarcane" Harris|Sugarcane Harris]], [[Aynsley Dunbar]], [[Flo & Eddie]], and others come and go as Zappa's music has evolved – the one constant has been Zappa's biting social commentary.

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 As for the reference to drugs, Zappa has come out in print and in song vehemently opposed to their use (he says he's smoked marihuana on maybe a couple of occasions), yet the popular consensus is, "Anyone that weird must be on something."
-As for his tolerance of journalists, he will openly state that he doesn't much enjoy conducting interviews – partly because he's got more important things to do with his time, and partly because most of the rock press has not been extremely kind to him or his music. In [[Rolling Stone]]'s massive Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll, Zappa rated one perfunctory paragraph in the chapter of "Art Rock," while entire chapters were devoted to such derivative acts as [[Rod Stewart]] and [[Creedence Clearwater Revival]].
+As for his tolerance of journalists, he will openly state that he doesn't much enjoy conducting interviews – partly because he's got more important things to do with his time, and partly because most of the rock press has not been extremely kind to him or his music. In [[Rolling Stone]]'s massive Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll, Zappa rated one perfunctory paragraph in the chapter of "Art Rock," while entire chapters were devoted to such derivative acts as [[Wikipedia:Rod Stewart|Rod Stewart]] and [[Wikipedia:Creedence Clearwater Revival|Creedence Clearwater Revival]].
 But Zappa is an interviewer's dream subject – articulate, witty, intelligent, willing to address any subject, and probably capable of turning out a better article than most of the professional journalists who write about him. After returning from Europe, where he produced an album by Indian violinist [[L. Shankar]], Zappa took a break from his composing regimen to conduct this interview at his home in the Hollywood Hills.
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 '''Musician: Was [[Cruising With Ruben & The Jets]] a parody of the 50s then, or was that a serious attempt to play in that style?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' I'll tell you, there's a very scientific reason for the existence of Ruben & The Jets. The closest relationship between that album as an artistic event and another event from a different field that you can compare it to would be the point in [[Igor Stravinsky|Stravinsky]]'s career in which he decided he was going to write neo-classical music. He started doing stuff like [[Pulcinella]] – writing music in his day and age, but using forms that were thoroughly out of style and frowned upon by the academic establishment. You have to remember that the American people don't have much going for them in the way of taste. I mean, taste is something that's inflicted on the American public by other outside forces. So if somebody tells you that something is cool, well, you'll think it's cool and you'll go out and buy it. To make an album like [[Cruising With Ruben & The Jets]] at that time in history, in '68, was very unfashionable. And everybody went, "Oh, I can't own that; it's not cool. It's not acid rock, it's not fuzztone, it's not psychedelic. Who needs this?" I didn't do it just to be arbitrary – I like that kind of music, and I wanted to have some examples of that style in my total catalog output.
+'''Zappa:''' I'll tell you, there's a very scientific reason for the existence of Ruben & The Jets. The closest relationship between that album as an artistic event and another event from a different field that you can compare it to would be the point in [[Igor Stravinsky|Stravinsky]]'s career in which he decided he was going to write neo-classical music. He started doing stuff like [[Wikipedia:Pulcinella (ballet)|Pulcinella]] – writing music in his day and age, but using forms that were thoroughly out of style and frowned upon by the academic establishment. You have to remember that the American people don't have much going for them in the way of taste. I mean, taste is something that's inflicted on the American public by other outside forces. So if somebody tells you that something is cool, well, you'll think it's cool and you'll go out and buy it. To make an album like [[Cruising With Ruben & The Jets]] at that time in history, in '68, was very unfashionable. And everybody went, "Oh, I can't own that; it's not cool. It's not acid rock, it's not fuzztone, it's not psychedelic. Who needs this?" I didn't do it just to be arbitrary – I like that kind of music, and I wanted to have some examples of that style in my total catalog output.
 '''Musician: Is it difficult to find musicians who can play in that style convincingly?<br>
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 '''Zappa:''' Sure. As a matter of fact, where I went to school in San Diego, there were a lot of bands during the 50s, and true status was knowing how to play "Okie Dokie Stomp." In fact, the record didn't exist; the record was an oldie but goodie then, and it was very obscure. Not very many people had ever heard the original "Okie Dokie Stomp," but the guitar solo from that record was passed in the oral tradition from guy to guy. I can play the first part of it.
-'''Musician: There are certain guitar solos – like "Hideaway" by [[Freddie King]], or [[Billy Butler]]'s solo on "Honky Tonk" – that are always played note for note.<br>
+'''Musician: There are certain guitar solos – like "Hideaway" by [[Wikipedia:Freddie King|Freddie King]], or [[Wikipedia:Billy Butler (guitarist)|Billy Butler]]'s solo on "Honky Tonk" – that are always played note for note.<br>
 '''Zappa:''' That's right. It's like you have respect for that thing as a musical event, the same way you wouldn't want to mess around with a well-tempered clavichord.
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 '''Musician: In the essay you wrote for [[Guitar Player Magazine]], you said that even though [[Elmore James]] always played the same famous lick, you got the feeling that he meant it.<br>
-'''Zappa:''' Well, he did. Here's what that stuff is like: It transcends music and gets into realms of language. The English language has a few idiosyncrasies in the way catch phrases work. Like, "Well, excuuuuse me!" You know, [[Elmore James]]' lick could be his version of "Well, excuuuuse me!" then maybe a million guitar players want to go reedledeedeedelee-deedelee-deede/ee-deedee [laughs]. It transcends the music and gets into another realm – just the same way that "Well, excuuuuse me" doesn't mean excuse me, it means a whole other bunch of stuff that's not very specific but it's hovering in the atmosphere whenever you say it. See, there's a whole folklore gap for stuff that happened back then that's been corrupted by television and magazines and newspapers. The way they talk about the 50s, they tend to adhere to the white side, and capitalize on the sort of snide viewpoint of what they describe as inferior doo-wop music. And that's not what happened at all. I mean, I think that was probably the Renaissance of rhythm and blues back then. And whenever you hear about it, you're always hearing about it from extremely biased white people who are trying to keep their show or article commercial by laying very heavily on the [[Elvis Presley]]-type syndrome and all the most obvious large-selling hits of the time. But the best of that music still remains unknown. [[Boozoo Chavis]]! "Paper In My Shoe" by Boozoo Chavis. Have you heard that? That record is classic. It's got the world's most out of tune guitar on it! This guitar player is playing one chord: pedeetitee-pedeetitee-pedeetitee .... He's just out! And it's mixed right up front: pedeetitee-pedeetitee. You know that old-time, all-the-treble-taken-off-of-it kind of rhythm guitar sound? Oh, man, what a song. It's on one of those collected Rural Blues albums on Imperial.
+'''Zappa:''' Well, he did. Here's what that stuff is like: It transcends music and gets into realms of language. The English language has a few idiosyncrasies in the way catch phrases work. Like, "Well, excuuuuse me!" You know, [[Elmore James]]' lick could be his version of "Well, excuuuuse me!" then maybe a million guitar players want to go reedledeedeedelee-deedelee-deede/ee-deedee [laughs]. It transcends the music and gets into another realm – just the same way that "Well, excuuuuse me" doesn't mean excuse me, it means a whole other bunch of stuff that's not very specific but it's hovering in the atmosphere whenever you say it. See, there's a whole folklore gap for stuff that happened back then that's been corrupted by television and magazines and newspapers. The way they talk about the 50s, they tend to adhere to the white side, and capitalize on the sort of snide viewpoint of what they describe as inferior doo-wop music. And that's not what happened at all. I mean, I think that was probably the Renaissance of rhythm and blues back then. And whenever you hear about it, you're always hearing about it from extremely biased white people who are trying to keep their show or article commercial by laying very heavily on the [[Elvis Presley]]-type syndrome and all the most obvious large-selling hits of the time. But the best of that music still remains unknown. [[Wikipedia:Boozoo Chavis|Boozoo Chavis]]! "Paper In My Shoe" by Boozoo Chavis. Have you heard that? That record is classic. It's got the world's most out of tune guitar on it! This guitar player is playing one chord: pedeetitee-pedeetitee-pedeetitee .... He's just out! And it's mixed right up front: pedeetitee-pedeetitee. You know that old-time, all-the-treble-taken-off-of-it kind of rhythm guitar sound? Oh, man, what a song. It's on one of those collected Rural Blues albums on Imperial.
 '''Musician: On a lot of those records it's not even distracting or jarring if everything's out of tune.<br>
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 '''Musician: So you sided with the R&B crowd?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' Yeah. Well, to me, there wasn't that much emotional depth in listening to something like "Martians Go Home" by [[Shorty Rogers]] – that kind of stuff. It was just bleak; it didn't have any balls to it! And, of course, it didn't have any words either.
+'''Zappa:''' Yeah. Well, to me, there wasn't that much emotional depth in listening to something like "Martians Go Home" by [[Wikipedia:Shorty Rogers|Shorty Rogers]] – that kind of stuff. It was just bleak; it didn't have any balls to it! And, of course, it didn't have any words either.
 '''Musician: Were you ever exposed to some of the jazz that preceded that, like bebop?<br>

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−	When Frank Zappa's Mothers Of Invention released [[Freak Out!]] in 1967, the reaction of most consumers was something like, "This must be some sort of joke – but I don't get it." At a time when rock music was taking itself more and more seriously and college professors were quoting [[Bob Dylan]] and the [[The Beatles\|Beatles]], Zappa seemed to mock everything that was sacred – including his own music. In the liner notes to that debut album, he said of "[[Hungry Freaks Daddy]]," "This song has no message," and admitted that "[[Wowie Zowie]]" was "designed to suck the 12-year-old listener into our camp." While other groups were advocating peace and love, the Mothers would insult their audiences onstage. And they were anything but beautiful.	+	When Frank Zappa's Mothers Of Invention released [[Freak Out!]] in 1967, the reaction of most consumers was something like, "This must be some sort of joke – but I don't get it." At a time when rock music was taking itself more and more seriously and college professors were quoting [[Bob Dylan]] and the [[The Beatles\|Beatles]], Zappa seemed to mock everything that was sacred – including his own music. In the liner notes to that debut album, he said of "[[Hungry Freaks, Daddy (1966 - Los Angeles)\|Hungry Freaks Daddy]]," "This song has no message," and admitted that "[[Wowie Zowie]]" was "designed to suck the 12-year-old listener into our camp." While other groups were advocating peace and love, the Mothers would insult their audiences onstage. And they were anything but beautiful.

	Few critics could have predicted then that Zappa's sensory-overload attack would become such an influential force in the musical factions which came to be known as fusion and progressive rock. Fewer still could have conceived of Zappa sustaining one of the longest, most prolific careers in the field of rock.		Few critics could have predicted then that Zappa's sensory-overload attack would become such an influential force in the musical factions which came to be known as fusion and progressive rock. Fewer still could have conceived of Zappa sustaining one of the longest, most prolific careers in the field of rock.

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 '''Musician: Do you have many modern classical influences?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' The main ones would be [[Edgar Varèse|Varèse]], [[Igor Stravinsky|Stravinsky]], and [[Anton Friedrich Ernst von Webern|Webern]] – probably in that order.
+'''Zappa:''' The main ones would be [[Edgard Varèse|Varèse]], [[Igor Stravinsky|Stravinsky]], and [[Anton Webern|Webern]] – probably in that order.
 '''Musician: Some of your recorded work sounds like it would be impossible to reproduce live, but you manage to all the time. How much does the band rehearse?<br>

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 '''Zappa:''' I don't think there are jazz influences in [[Uncle Meat]]. If there's any influence in Uncle Meat it's from [[Conlon Nancarrow]]. He's a composer who lives in Mexico, but was born in Kentucky. He writes music for player-piano that is humanly impossible to perform. He writes all these bizarre canons and weird structures – punches them out on player-piano rolls. The stuff is fantastic; there are a few albums of it. If you've never heard it, you've got to hear it – it'll kill you. Some of it sounds like ragtime that's totally bionic.
-'''Musician: "[[America Drinks And Goes Home]]" ([[Absolutely Free]]) has a real jazz standard flavor. Did you write it to pay tribute to that style of music, or was it a parody of that genre?<br>
+'''Musician: "[[America Drinks & Goes Home]]" ([[Absolutely Free]]) has a real jazz standard flavor. Did you write it to pay tribute to that style of music, or was it a parody of that genre?<br>
 '''Zappa:''' It's a very scientific parody of that genre. It's so subtle that you almost wouldn't see it as a parody. It's not a bad tune. The whole essence of that kind of music is that moron II-V-I syndrome, where everything modulates around the earth going II-V-I. It's an exercise in II-V-I stupidity.

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 '''Musician: Were you ever exposed to some of the jazz that preceded that, like bebop?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' I didn't hear any bebop until I moved away from San Diego, and moved to Lancaster, and I came across a [[Charlie Parker]] album. I didn't like it – because it sounded very tuneless, and it also didn't feel like it had any balls to it. But I did get an [[Oscar Pettiford]] album that I thought was good, and I had some [[Charles Mingus|Charlie Mingus]],  albums that I really liked.
+'''Zappa:''' I didn't hear any bebop until I moved away from San Diego, and moved to Lancaster, and I came across a [[Charlie Parker]] album. I didn't like it – because it sounded very tuneless, and it also didn't feel like it had any balls to it. But I did get an [[wikipedia:Oscar Pettiford|Oscar Pettiford]] album that I thought was good, and I had some [[Charles Mingus|Charlie Mingus]],  albums that I really liked.
 '''Musician: Mingus had balls.<br>

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 '''Musician: Theory?<br>
-'''Zappa:''' I had some theory. When I was in high school, I was one of these incorrigible people, and to shut me up they figured, "Well, maybe he just likes music." So, since the high school I was going to didn't offer any theory classes, they would send me over to the junior college for an hour a day to take this theory class there. And it was taught by a jazz trumpeter named Mr. Russell, and we were working out of the Walter Piston harmony book. I did my little exercises in there for one semester, then I had maybe one semester at a junior college after that. But that's the extent of my formal training. The rest of it's all from the library.
+'''Zappa:''' I had some theory. When I was in high school, I was one of these incorrigible people, and to shut me up they figured, "Well, maybe he just likes music." So, since the high school I was going to didn't offer any theory classes, they would send me over to the junior college for an hour a day to take this theory class there. And it was taught by a jazz trumpeter named Mr. Russell, and we were working out of the [[Walter Piston]] harmony book. I did my little exercises in there for one semester, then I had maybe one semester at a junior college after that. But that's the extent of my formal training. The rest of it's all from the library.
 '''Musician: A lot of people, when they get into theory, gravitate towards jazz because it's a music where they can see the theory in practice.<br>