Winter In Amerika - Revision history

Spider of Destiny at 19:44, 8 August 2026

2026-08-08T19:44:22Z

Spider of Destiny at 22:16, 6 August 2026

2026-08-06T22:16:33Z

Spider of Destiny at 22:11, 1 July 2026

2026-07-01T22:11:09Z

Spider of Destiny at 17:38, 10 June 2026

2026-06-10T17:38:30Z

Spider of Destiny at 18:57, 5 June 2026

2026-06-05T18:57:44Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 14:53, 5 November 2021

2021-11-05T14:53:17Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 17:20, 4 October 2021

2021-10-04T17:20:37Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 18:49, 14 September 2021

2021-09-14T18:49:09Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 15:57, 30 July 2021

2021-07-30T15:57:35Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 01:18, 24 July 2021

2021-07-24T01:18:59Z

@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 Well, to quote you from the Associated Press Wire Report, dated November 1, 1985, the basic points of the agreement between the Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the PMRC are that "parents' groups will have no role in determining what is explicit." Next, "the record companies will determine what is explicit." When asked, "What is explicit?," Stanley Gortikov (president of the RIAA) replied, "What's explicit is explicit." Third, "those artists whose contracts give them control over their packaging are free to ignore the understanding." Does this sound like something you could enforce?
-I think the record industry allowed the ladies to save a little face (by making a formal agreement at all), which just encourages them even more. The PMRC has moved to new quarters in Virginia; they are no longer in Washington, D.C. They have a new printed fund-raising package which heralds their victory while omitting those parts of the agreement that render it inoperable. The fund-raising package says that if you'll send them money, they will send you more examples of the horrors of these lyrics. They are making an industry out of this thing! Meanwhile, Reverend [[Jeff Ling]], their consultant, has this new slide show which he is taking around.
+I think the record industry allowed the ladies to save a little face (by making a formal agreement at all), which just encourages them even more. The PMRC has moved to new quarters in [[Virginia]]; they are no longer in Washington, D.C. They have a new printed fund-raising package which heralds their victory while omitting those parts of the agreement that render it inoperable. The fund-raising package says that if you'll send them money, they will send you more examples of the horrors of these lyrics. They are making an industry out of this thing! Meanwhile, Reverend [[Jeff Ling]], their consultant, has this new slide show which he is taking around.
 '''Are there any legislative attempts to require record ratings?<br>
-Last year the state of Maryland considered a bill which would make it illegal to sell a record declared "obscene" to a person under 18 years of age. The text of the bill stated that its purpose was to keep people from seeing or hearing references to illicit sex. And then it had a definition of what constitutes illicit sex in the state of Maryland. Sexual intercourse is the first thing on the list. What the legislators did was take the existing visual pornography law and just add the words "phonograph record, magnetic tape, compact disc" to it. Since the existing law in Maryland is already a bit vague, adding just those words isn't going to give you an enforceable regulation.
+Last year the state of [[Maryland]] considered a bill which would make it illegal to sell a record declared "obscene" to a person under 18 years of age. The text of the bill stated that its purpose was to keep people from seeing or hearing references to illicit sex. And then it had a definition of what constitutes illicit sex in the state of Maryland. Sexual intercourse is the first thing on the list. What the legislators did was take the existing visual pornography law and just add the words "phonograph record, magnetic tape, compact disc" to it. Since the existing law in Maryland is already a bit vague, adding just those words isn't going to give you an enforceable regulation.
 To give an example of how ridiculous this bill was, under this bill you were not allowed to advertise pornography. So let's say that somebody had decided that a [[Wikipedia:Mötley Crüe|Mötley Crüe]] album was obscene. If you were wearing a tee shirt that says Mötley Crüe on it you would be advertising pornography. You could be fined $1000 and/or go to jail for a year. If you wore the tee shirt twice, it is $5000 and three years in jail.

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 '''In the past you have said that "art is dying in this country." What do you mean by this?<br>
-Much of the creative work I find interesting and amusing has no basis in economic reality. Most decisions relevant to expenditures for what gets produced and distributed are made strictly on a bottom line basis. Nobody makes a move without talking to their accountant first. There will always be people who will take a chance, but their numbers are dwindling. Those who are crazy enough to take the chance on spending money to make some unusual object or event take place are an endangered species. The spirit of adventurousness at any level of American society has been pretty much legislated away. In the eighties, with a repressive [[Republican Party|Republican]], yuppie-oriented administration installed and ready to perpetuate itself with Supreme Court appointments that will keep us in trouble for the next half century, the prognosis is not good for things which differ from the viewpoint of the conservative right.
+Much of the creative work I find interesting and amusing has no basis in economic reality. Most decisions relevant to expenditures for what gets produced and distributed are made strictly on a bottom line basis. Nobody makes a move without talking to their accountant first. There will always be people who will take a chance, but their numbers are dwindling. Those who are crazy enough to take the chance on spending money to make some unusual object or event take place are an endangered species. The spirit of adventurousness at any level of American society has been pretty much legislated away. In the eighties, with a repressive [[Republican Party|Republican]], [[Yuppies|yuppie-oriented]] administration installed and ready to perpetuate itself with Supreme Court appointments that will keep us in trouble for the next half century, the prognosis is not good for things which differ from the viewpoint of the conservative right.
 '''Do you think anything can be done to reverse the trend?<br>

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 '''In the past you have said that "art is dying in this country." What do you mean by this?<br>
-Much of the creative work I find interesting and amusing has no basis in economic reality. Most decisions relevant to expenditures for what gets produced and distributed are made strictly on a bottom line basis. Nobody makes a move without talking to their accountant first. There will always be people who will take a chance, but their numbers are dwindling. Those who are crazy enough to take the chance on spending money to make some unusual object or event take place are an endangered species. The spirit of adventurousness at any level of American society has been pretty much legislated away. In the eighties, with a repressive Republican, yuppie-oriented administration installed and ready to perpetuate itself with Supreme Court appointments that will keep us in trouble for the next half century, the prognosis is not good for things which differ from the viewpoint of the conservative right.
+Much of the creative work I find interesting and amusing has no basis in economic reality. Most decisions relevant to expenditures for what gets produced and distributed are made strictly on a bottom line basis. Nobody makes a move without talking to their accountant first. There will always be people who will take a chance, but their numbers are dwindling. Those who are crazy enough to take the chance on spending money to make some unusual object or event take place are an endangered species. The spirit of adventurousness at any level of American society has been pretty much legislated away. In the eighties, with a repressive [[Republican Party|Republican]], yuppie-oriented administration installed and ready to perpetuate itself with Supreme Court appointments that will keep us in trouble for the next half century, the prognosis is not good for things which differ from the viewpoint of the conservative right.
 '''Do you think anything can be done to reverse the trend?<br>

@@ Line 42: / Line 42: @@
 A songwriter is different. [In a facetious singsong voice] You write a nice song, then you're important. Because with a song, now we have a car, now we have love, now we have a this ... but a composer? What the fuck do they do? All the good music's already been written by people with wigs and stuff on.
-'''So, the public doesn't need composers. What about composers? Do they need a public? For example, [electronic music composer] Milton Rabbit, in an essay entitled "Who Cares If You Listen?," has advocated the virtual exclusion of the general public from modern music concerts. What is your opinion on that?<br>
+'''So, the public doesn't need composers. What about composers? Do they need a public? For example, [electronic music composer] [[Milton Babbitt]], in an essay entitled "Who Cares If You Listen?," has advocated the virtual exclusion of the general public from modern music concerts. What is your opinion on that?<br>
 That's unnecessary, they're already excluded; they don't go! Have you been to a modern music concert? Plenty of room, isn't there? Come on Milton, give yourself a break. I hope you're not going to spend money trying to exclude these people. What are you going to do, have it legislated in Congress like those assholes who wanted to make it a law that you couldn't put anything backwards, on a phonograph record?
@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 Well, to quote you from the Associated Press Wire Report, dated November 1, 1985, the basic points of the agreement between the Record Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the PMRC are that "parents' groups will have no role in determining what is explicit." Next, "the record companies will determine what is explicit." When asked, "What is explicit?," Stanley Gortikov (president of the RIAA) replied, "What's explicit is explicit." Third, "those artists whose contracts give them control over their packaging are free to ignore the understanding." Does this sound like something you could enforce?
-I think the record industry allowed the ladies to save a little face (by making a formal agreement at all), which just encourages them even more. The PMRC has moved to new quarters in Virginia; they are no longer in Washington, D.C. They have a new printed fund-raising package which heralds their victory while omitting those parts of the agreement that render it inoperable. The fund-raising package says that if you'll send them money, they will send you more examples of the horrors of these lyrics. They are making an industry out of this thing! Meanwhile, Reverend Jeff Ling, their consultant, has this new slide show which he is taking around.
+I think the record industry allowed the ladies to save a little face (by making a formal agreement at all), which just encourages them even more. The PMRC has moved to new quarters in Virginia; they are no longer in Washington, D.C. They have a new printed fund-raising package which heralds their victory while omitting those parts of the agreement that render it inoperable. The fund-raising package says that if you'll send them money, they will send you more examples of the horrors of these lyrics. They are making an industry out of this thing! Meanwhile, Reverend [[Jeff Ling]], their consultant, has this new slide show which he is taking around.
 '''Are there any legislative attempts to require record ratings?<br>

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 Zappa's interest in politics extends beyond those issues that are music related, though his perspective occasionally tends toward the bizarre ("For all those cowboys who think that ''[[Star Wars]]'' is gonna save us from alien attack: does it ever occur to you that ''Star Wars'' doesn't kill germs?"). He is a most vocal critic of the [[Ronald Reagan|Reagan]] administration and its fundamentalist supporters. Referring to items ranging from government obfuscation to the bombing of abortion clinics, Zappa concludes, "We're seeing the same terrorist techniques in the U.S. as those used by Moslem fanatics in the Mideast – the difference is just a matter of costume." He points out that although fundamentalist agitators may be a very small minority in the U.S., the Shiites of the Islamic middle east also comprise a small part of the Islamic community.
-Going on about the Mideast (in a November 1986 conversation during the turmoil over arms shipments to Iran), Zappa continues, "Where was [[George H.W. Bush|Bush]] during all this?" He refers to a recent trial of arms dealers involved in a private, clandestine attempt to direct arms to Iran: "They played a tape on [[Wikipedia:CNN|CNN]] which went, 'We just got the green light – Bush says – it's okay but Schultz doesn't like it.'" Zappa's conclusion is that the cover-up is far more insidious than it looks, with one object being to protect Bush's presidential aspirations. "They're trying to make the front-runner look good."
+Going on about the Mideast (in a November 1986 conversation during the turmoil over arms shipments to Iran), Zappa continues, "Where was [[George H.W. Bush|Bush]] during all this?" He refers to a recent trial of arms dealers involved in a private, clandestine attempt to direct arms to Iran: "They played a tape on [[Wikipedia:CNN|CNN]] which went, 'We just got the green light – Bush says – it's okay but [[George Shultz|Schultz]] doesn't like it.'" Zappa's conclusion is that the cover-up is far more insidious than it looks, with one object being to protect Bush's presidential aspirations. "They're trying to make the front-runner look good."
 Though Zappa faults the press for allowing things to go on as they have been ("except for Sam Donaldson, the rest of the press has been napping for the last five years"), he says he's "optimistic." He feels the radical right is "on the run," and notes that their contributions have been dropping. But since the right wing agenda is still being pressed, Zappa valiantly vows, "So long as I can keep on talking I'm gonna do what I can to stop 'em from getting their way." – ed.

@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 Perhaps. I tend to view the whole thing as a conspiracy. It is no accident that the public schools in the United States are pure shit. It is no accident that masses of drugs are available and openly used at all levels of society. In a way, the real business of government is the business of controlling the labor force.
-Social pressure is placed on people to become a certain type of individual, and then rewards are heaped on people who conform to that stereotype. Take the pop music business, for example. Look at the stereotypes held up by the media as examples of great accomplishment. You see guys who are making millions of dollars and selling millions of units. And because they are making and selling millions they are stamped with the seal of approval, and it is the millions which make their work quality. Yet anyone can look at what is being done and say, "[[Jesus]], I can do that!" You celebrate mediocrity, you get mediocrity. People who could have achieved more won't, because they know that all they have to do is be "that," and they too can sell millions and make millions and have people love them because they're rnerely mediocre. And that is reinforced over and over and over.
+Social pressure is placed on people to become a certain type of individual, and then rewards are heaped on people who conform to that stereotype. Take the pop music business, for example. Look at the stereotypes held up by the media as examples of great accomplishment. You see guys who are making millions of dollars and selling millions of units. And because they are making and selling millions they are stamped with the seal of approval, and it is the millions which make their work quality. Yet anyone can look at what is being done and say, "[[Jesus]], I can do that!" You celebrate mediocrity, you get mediocrity. People who could have achieved more won't, because they know that all they have to do is be "that," and they too can sell millions and make millions and have people love them because they're merely mediocre. And that is reinforced over and over and over.
-Few people who do anything excellent are ever heard of. You know why? Because excellence, pure excellence, terrifies the fuck out Americans because they've been bred to appreciate the success of the mediocre. People don't wish to be reminded that lurking somewhere there are people who can do some shit you can't do. They can think a way you can't think, they can dance a way you can't dance. They are excellent. You aren't excellent. Most Americans aren't excellent, they're only OK. And so to keep them happy as a labor force, you say, "OK, let's take this mediocre chump." and we say. "He is terrific!" All the other mediocre chumps say, "Yeah, that's right and that gives me hope, because one day as mediocre and chumpish as I am I can... " It's smart labor relations. An MBA decision. That is the orientation of most entertainment, politics d religion. So considering how firmly entrenched all that is right now, you think it's going to turn around? Not without a genetic mutation it's not!
+Few people who do anything excellent are ever heard of. You know why? Because excellence, pure excellence, terrifies the fuck out Americans because they've been bred to appreciate the success of the mediocre. People don't wish to be reminded that lurking somewhere there are people who can do some shit you can't do. They can think a way you can't think, they can dance a way you can't dance. They are excellent. You aren't excellent. Most Americans aren't excellent, they're only OK. And so to keep them happy as a labor force, you say, "OK, let's take this mediocre chump." and we say. "He is terrific!" All the other mediocre chumps say, "Yeah, that's right and that gives me hope, because one day as mediocre and chumpish as I am I can... " It's smart labor relations. An [[M.B.A.|MBA]] decision. That is the orientation of most entertainment, politics and religion. So considering how firmly entrenched all that is right now, you think it's going to turn around? Not without a genetic mutation it's not!
 '''If you would focus on the message of pop music for a moment, what do you see as the Issues of the 1980s that music can address today?<br>

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 '''Several months ago, it seemed a refreshing and deliciously ironic moment when [[Biography|Frank Zappa]] was spotted on television, testifying before a Senate committee. He was dressed in a jacket and tie, much as he was more than two decades ago for an appearance – in which he musically played a bicycle – on the [[Steve Allen]] Show. Before the committee, however, with the accumulated notoriety of the intervening years in evidence only as subtext, the talkative, knowledgeable and apparently incensed musician held forth as the most reasonable voice of the afternoon.
-Considering the urgent problems you'll find on the front pages of even the lamest paper, the committee was holding hearings on the non-issue of applying ratings to rock records. Zappa had come to Washington to help nip this bit of proto-[[fascism]] in the bud. Instigated by the Parents' Music Resource Center, a well-connected group of Washington wives with kids in school and time on their hands, the committee was examining the possibility of a causal link between rock music and drug abuse, teenage pregnancy, Satanism, concert violence and other things which no one could seem to recall having existed before 1956.
+Considering the urgent problems you'll find on the front pages of even the lamest paper, the committee was holding hearings on the non-issue of applying ratings to rock records. Zappa had come to [[Washington]] to help nip this bit of proto-[[fascism]] in the bud. Instigated by the Parents' Music Resource Center, a well-connected group of Washington wives with kids in school and time on their hands, the committee was examining the possibility of a causal link between rock music and drug abuse, teenage pregnancy, Satanism, concert violence and other things which no one could seem to recall having existed before 1956.
 Asked how something as trivial as record-rating became the subject of a Senate inquiry, Zappa simply remarked, "A couple of blowjobs here and there and Bingo! – you get a hearing." He added that [[Tipper Gore]] – wife of Senator Albert Gore and a key figure in the [[Parents Music Resource Center|PMRC]] – had recently "demanded" that [[MTV]] president Tom Freston go to Washington to discuss the rating of music videos. While any legislation against the various music media doesn't seem likely at this point, Zappa notes that the current administration is doing what it can to further its own ideology, such as reviewing all documentaries being produced by both National Public Radio and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

@@ Line 76: / Line 76: @@
 Last year the state of Maryland considered a bill which would make it illegal to sell a record declared "obscene" to a person under 18 years of age. The text of the bill stated that its purpose was to keep people from seeing or hearing references to illicit sex. And then it had a definition of what constitutes illicit sex in the state of Maryland. Sexual intercourse is the first thing on the list. What the legislators did was take the existing visual pornography law and just add the words "phonograph record, magnetic tape, compact disc" to it. Since the existing law in Maryland is already a bit vague, adding just those words isn't going to give you an enforceable regulation.
-To give an example of how ridiculous this bill was, under this bill you were not allowed to advertise pornography. So let's say that somebody had decided that a [[Mötley Crüe|Mötley Crüe]] album was obscene. If you were wearing a tee shirt that says Mötley Crüe on it you would be advertising pornography. You could be fined $1000 and/or go to jail for a year. If you wore the tee shirt twice, it is $5000 and three years in jail.
+To give an example of how ridiculous this bill was, under this bill you were not allowed to advertise pornography. So let's say that somebody had decided that a [[Wikipedia:Mötley Crüe|Mötley Crüe]] album was obscene. If you were wearing a tee shirt that says Mötley Crüe on it you would be advertising pornography. You could be fined $1000 and/or go to jail for a year. If you wore the tee shirt twice, it is $5000 and three years in jail.
 '''Did the bill pass In Maryland?<br>