WRIF Radio Interview - Revision history

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-<blockquote>The following is the transcript of a telephone conversation that took place during the broadcast of the program Nightcall, which aired Sunday nights on WRIF-FM in Detroit. The main phone participants are Peter Werbe, the host of ''Nightcall,'' and [[Biography|Frank Zappa]], who at the time was testifying at Senate hearings regarding pending legislation that would require the printing of song lyrics on the covers of record albums.
+<blockquote>The following is the transcript of a telephone conversation that took place during the broadcast of the program Nightcall, which aired Sunday nights on WRIF-FM in [[Detroit]]. The main phone participants are Peter Werbe, the host of ''Nightcall,'' and [[Biography|Frank Zappa]], who at the time was testifying at Senate hearings regarding pending legislation that would require the printing of song lyrics on the covers of record albums.
 This conversation took place October 28, 1985. Please note that first one or two minutes were lost.</blockquote>
@@ Line 239: / Line 239: @@
 '''No, it's not. WRIF is very unusual. That's why I get to play a lot of your music, Frank.<br>
-Well, in Detroit, I've always found that you've had pretty active radio there. You've got some variety, and there are things that you can hear on the air in Detroit that you won't hear in other parts of the country.
+Well, in [[Detroit]], I've always found that you've had pretty active radio there. You've got some variety, and there are things that you can hear on the air in Detroit that you won't hear in other parts of the country.
 '''Yeah, that's true. All right, George, thank you very much. I appreciate your call. Good morning, this is WRIF, and you're on the air with Frank Zappa.

@@ Line 337: / Line 337: @@
 '''Oliver: Right, in Ann Arbor. And that's not too far from downtown.<br>
-Well, I hope everybody goes to it, and they should take this seriously. One of the things my father told me before he passed away, and I'm sure you might have even heard it from your father: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Even people who want to do something good can accidentally make bad things happen, and that's part of what's been happening since this record censorship came out, because of the business that's going on in San Antonio right now, where they're trying to set a minimum age for attendance to a live rock show. You know about that?
+Well, I hope everybody goes to it, and they should take this seriously. One of the things my father told me before he passed away, and I'm sure you might have even heard it from your father: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Even people who want to do something good can accidentally make bad things happen, and that's part of what's been happening since this record censorship came out, because of the business that's going on in [[San Antonio]] right now, where they're trying to set a minimum age for attendance to a live rock show. You know about that?
 '''No.<br>
@@ Line 484: / Line 484: @@
 You've got to get in and register and look at what's happening in your town. Because these people who are in favor of censorship, and I'm not just talking about the PMRC, but all their copycats and weird little regional deviates that pop up, they're getting ready to spring some legislation on you that is really going to cork stuff up. It's not just about records.
-I was [talking] earlier [about] this situation in San Antonio, Texas. There's this group down there that wants to set a minimum age – for "health" reasons – a minimum age at which it would be "healthful" for a person to see a live rock concert. That's coming up before the San Antonio City Council either on the 7th or the 14th of November. If they pass that city ordinance down there, that is going to be used as a model for other cities across the United States that want to put the lid on rock and roll. And if you don't register to vote, you're not going to be ready for that one when it comes around.
+I was [talking] earlier [about] this situation in [[San Antonio]], Texas. There's this group down there that wants to set a minimum age – for "health" reasons – a minimum age at which it would be "healthful" for a person to see a live rock concert. That's coming up before the San Antonio City Council either on the 7th or the 14th of November. If they pass that city ordinance down there, that is going to be used as a model for other cities across the United States that want to put the lid on rock and roll. And if you don't register to vote, you're not going to be ready for that one when it comes around.
 '''Yeah, Michigan's junior senator, Donald Riegle, is on the committee, too, that is going to be deciding on this issue, the Hollings bill.<br>

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 '''Yeah, right, and his wife of course [is] instrumental in the PMRC ... <br>
-That's right. But what's happening is, you got a case of "Good Cop, Bad Cop". You've got [Senator] [[Fritz Hollings|Hollings]] [D-SC] asking for legislation before December, keeping the pressure on – his wife is a member of it – and you got [Senator] Gore [D-Tenn] being the pal of the record industry and co-endorsing their bill. It's like, you know, let's play this political football here. But what this bill is – in case you haven't seen the ads about it in [[Rolling Stone]] and other places – this is the piece of legislation that will increase the cost of all blank tape and all recording equipment. Blank tape will go up probably about a buck a cassette, and cassette recorders will go up ten percent, and combination of a turntable and a cassette recorder, or a double cassette recorder, will go up twenty-five percent. And you won't get a chance to vote on it. This is going to be a private tax that the government collects on behalf of the record industry, and, bingo, it's there, and you're stuck with higher prices.
+That's right. But what's happening is, you got a case of "Good Cop, Bad Cop". You've got [Senator] [[Ernest F. Hollings|Hollings]] [D-SC] asking for legislation before December, keeping the pressure on – his wife is a member of it – and you got [Senator] Gore [D-Tenn] being the pal of the record industry and co-endorsing their bill. It's like, you know, let's play this political football here. But what this bill is – in case you haven't seen the ads about it in [[Rolling Stone]] and other places – this is the piece of legislation that will increase the cost of all blank tape and all recording equipment. Blank tape will go up probably about a buck a cassette, and cassette recorders will go up ten percent, and combination of a turntable and a cassette recorder, or a double cassette recorder, will go up twenty-five percent. And you won't get a chance to vote on it. This is going to be a private tax that the government collects on behalf of the record industry, and, bingo, it's there, and you're stuck with higher prices.
 '''All right, Frank Zappa, let me just back up just a little bit – there seems to be now at least a third aspect to what I thought was only two. The first being censorship which I'm, being in the music business myself, of course, unalterably opposed to, but also what I started off, in the first question, really, was whether you thought, just independent of the PMRC – is there a problem with these lyrics? For instance, you know, you have a song [called] "[[Dinah-Moe Humm]]", that's sort of a lusty and humorous song [whose] traditions go back to troubadour days. But it's a lot different then one which talks about sex at gun point or something like that. Do we have a problem?<br>

@@ Line 504: / Line 504: @@
 '''Tom: Well, I've heard the Senate testimony and I feel that if anyone wanted to see a great example of hypocrisy, they could just look at the Congress with their pet projects, and I wonder of you felt that there's any collusion, or if there's any liability based on the collusion with the senators and their wives.<br>
-You know, I said that in the hearing. I said, "I believe there's liability here." But in order to go after them for liability, they have to do something more than just be in collusion. You want to hear some statistics? Try this one on your imagination. When the Los Angeles Times did the first review of this album, they gave it a good review and they mentioned the "Porn Wars" cut. And then, the Los Angeles Times started calling senators' offices to get their comments on the tune. Well, obviously, they haven't heard it yet because the albums will not be shipped until November 15th. So, they couldn't say anything, but they started calling my house. I got a call from [Senator] Paula Hawkins' [R- Fla] office, and the staffer was asking my wife some questions about this, and along the way he wanted to clarify something that I had been saying in news interviews about Paula Hawkins. Here's what I've been saying, and here's where I got it. When Paula Hawkins appeared before that committee, she was neither a member of that committee nor a member of the PMRC.
+You know, I said that in the hearing. I said, "I believe there's liability here." But in order to go after them for liability, they have to do something more than just be in collusion. You want to hear some statistics? Try this one on your imagination. When the Los Angeles Times did the first review of this album, they gave it a good review and they mentioned the "Porn Wars" cut. And then, the Los Angeles Times started calling senators' offices to get their comments on the tune. Well, obviously, they haven't heard it yet because the albums will not be shipped until November 15th. So, they couldn't say anything, but they started calling my house. I got a call from [Senator] [[Paula Hawkins]]' [R- Fla] office, and the staffer was asking my wife some questions about this, and along the way he wanted to clarify something that I had been saying in news interviews about Paula Hawkins. Here's what I've been saying, and here's where I got it. When Paula Hawkins appeared before that committee, she was neither a member of that committee nor a member of the PMRC.
 After the Senate hearing, I had drinks with Senator Gore and his wife, and I asked him, "Who is she and where did she come from?" His answer was, as a Republican, she asked [Senator] Danforth [R-Mo] for permission to attend the hearing so that she could get some of the same kind of exposure that the other people were getting. And he obliged even though she was not part of the committee. And what the staffer told my wife was, that this is not true, that originally she was asked ... that she is the head of the Senate Committee for Parents, Children, Drugs and Alcohol, and that originally the PMRC asked her committee to hear it. Apparently, her committee was busy at the time, so they couldn't hear it.

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 '''Yeah, right, and his wife of course [is] instrumental in the PMRC ... <br>
-That's right. But what's happening is, you got a case of "Good Cop, Bad Cop". You've got [Senator] Hollings [D-SC] asking for legislation before December, keeping the pressure on – his wife is a member of it – and you got [Senator] Gore [D-Tenn] being the pal of the record industry and co-endorsing their bill. It's like, you know, let's play this political football here. But what this bill is – in case you haven't seen the ads about it in [[Rolling Stone]] and other places – this is the piece of legislation that will increase the cost of all blank tape and all recording equipment. Blank tape will go up probably about a buck a cassette, and cassette recorders will go up ten percent, and combination of a turntable and a cassette recorder, or a double cassette recorder, will go up twenty-five percent. And you won't get a chance to vote on it. This is going to be a private tax that the government collects on behalf of the record industry, and, bingo, it's there, and you're stuck with higher prices.
+That's right. But what's happening is, you got a case of "Good Cop, Bad Cop". You've got [Senator] [[Fritz Hollings|Hollings]] [D-SC] asking for legislation before December, keeping the pressure on – his wife is a member of it – and you got [Senator] Gore [D-Tenn] being the pal of the record industry and co-endorsing their bill. It's like, you know, let's play this political football here. But what this bill is – in case you haven't seen the ads about it in [[Rolling Stone]] and other places – this is the piece of legislation that will increase the cost of all blank tape and all recording equipment. Blank tape will go up probably about a buck a cassette, and cassette recorders will go up ten percent, and combination of a turntable and a cassette recorder, or a double cassette recorder, will go up twenty-five percent. And you won't get a chance to vote on it. This is going to be a private tax that the government collects on behalf of the record industry, and, bingo, it's there, and you're stuck with higher prices.
 '''All right, Frank Zappa, let me just back up just a little bit – there seems to be now at least a third aspect to what I thought was only two. The first being censorship which I'm, being in the music business myself, of course, unalterably opposed to, but also what I started off, in the first question, really, was whether you thought, just independent of the PMRC – is there a problem with these lyrics? For instance, you know, you have a song [called] "[[Dinah-Moe Humm]]", that's sort of a lusty and humorous song [whose] traditions go back to troubadour days. But it's a lot different then one which talks about sex at gun point or something like that. Do we have a problem?<br>
@@ Line 96: / Line 96: @@
 '''Werbe (laughing): Okay!<br>
-[It gets released] on November 15th, and on side two there's a twelve-minute cut called "Porn Wars", and what it does is, it uses the actual voices of the senators and Reverend Jeff Ling and [[Tipper Gore]] from the Senate hearing saying the things that made them famous during the hearing, and that makes the music. It had Senator Hollings, who made the statement early on in the hearing that since he traveled the country for three years and people couldn't understand him, "maybe I could make a good rock star, I don't know". I take that line and cause him to sing it in the middle of the piece. There's a lot of interesting things done on the computer to these voices.
+[It gets released] on November 15th, and on side two there's a twelve-minute cut called "Porn Wars", and what it does is, it uses the actual voices of the senators and Reverend [[Jeff Ling]] and [[Tipper Gore]] from the Senate hearing saying the things that made them famous during the hearing, and that makes the music. It had Senator Hollings, who made the statement early on in the hearing that since he traveled the country for three years and people couldn't understand him, "maybe I could make a good rock star, I don't know". I take that line and cause him to sing it in the middle of the piece. There's a lot of interesting things done on the computer to these voices.
 '''You know, your albums have been carrying their own unique warning label. Do you have it handy, or can you somehow summarize it?<br>
@@ Line 443: / Line 443: @@
 '''Marshall: Absolutely.<br>
-Well, then, what you have to understand is that with Hollings asking for legislation, I'm going to ask you the same thing that I asked Tipper Gore on this radio station in Atlanta. She didn't know the legislation was being proposed, either. I said, "Will you help me fight it?" [To Marshall:] Will the PTA help fight legislation? Because if you are really against it, you should get out there and say, "Mr. Hollings, please don't do this."
+Well, then, what you have to understand is that with Hollings asking for legislation, I'm going to ask you the same thing that I asked [[Tipper Gore]] on this radio station in Atlanta. She didn't know the legislation was being proposed, either. I said, "Will you help me fight it?" [To Marshall:] Will the PTA help fight legislation? Because if you are really against it, you should get out there and say, "Mr. Hollings, please don't do this."
 '''Marshall: Well, I'll tell you what: our president is going to be in the office tomorrow and I will bring it up with her.<br>

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 <div align=right>Transcribed by Chuck Hildebrandt, (chasfh(at)ix.netcom.com)</div align=right>
-[[Category:Interviews with Zappa]]
+[[Category:Radio Interviews with Frank Zappa]]
 [[Category:1985]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:28, 24 March 2024
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	<div align=right>Transcribed by Chuck Hildebrandt, (chasfh(at)ix.netcom.com)</div align=right>		<div align=right>Transcribed by Chuck Hildebrandt, (chasfh(at)ix.netcom.com)</div align=right>
	[[Category:Interviews with Zappa]]		[[Category:Interviews with Zappa]]
		+	[[Category:1985]]

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 '''Oliver: Yeah, well, the thing is that the comparison between the movie ratings and the record ratings is really not valid, because the reason for the MPAA rating was that they were trying to get Hollywood loose of the grip of the Hayes Office.<br>
-Hayes Office, yeah, I know that. That's one of the arguments that, when I was on the Ted Koppel show, Candy Stroud said, "Look, you know, they have this rating for films, and what did they have before? Nothing." What they had before was much worse, and that's the reason why the ratings exist now.
+Hayes Office, yeah, I know that. That's one of the arguments that, when I was on the Ted Koppel show, [[Kandy Stroud]] said, "Look, you know, they have this rating for films, and what did they have before? Nothing." What they had before was much worse, and that's the reason why the ratings exist now.
 But look at the ratings for movies. Even now, they're talking about adding yet another one. They're still not satisfied with the ratings that they've got now. They're talking about putting an "SA", [meaning] substance abuse, rating on films anytime a movie shows anybody using drugs in a positive light. They have to put an "SA" on the thing along with the "R" or whatever else. Where do you stop this stuff? You're going to use up the alphabet with labels on everything.

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 '''Marshall: Well, that's up to you, if you would like that. We aren't necessarily saying that that's what it can be. Even if there's just a line somewhere, on the back [or] wherever, so that if somebody is looking for that, if that's what they are concerned with, that they can see it there.
-'''Well, you know, in a lot of ways, the problem is the nature of rock and roll music itself, I mean, certainly, it has always contained themes and lyrics that have shaken the sensibilities of a white, "gentle" class of people. The word "rock and roll" is blues slang for sexual intercourse. That's the way the Rolling Stone Dictionary of Rock And Roll describes it, and as far as I've ever known, that's accurate. It's always been about parties, it's always been about lusty life, and we've all survived it. It is the popular music in the country today. I guess I read these lyrics, Terry, and some of them, from some of the bands I've seen from the PMRC, the ones that they've sent me, you do kind of shudder, and I think, "boy, I wonder what a thirteen year-old thinks when they [sic] see that." But I guess I survived Elvis, and I guess that you did, and I guess I'm a little more confident, I guess, than you that they'll survive [[Motley Crüe]].
+'''Well, you know, in a lot of ways, the problem is the nature of rock and roll music itself, I mean, certainly, it has always contained themes and lyrics that have shaken the sensibilities of a white, "gentle" class of people. The word "rock and roll" is blues slang for sexual intercourse. That's the way the Rolling Stone Dictionary of Rock And Roll describes it, and as far as I've ever known, that's accurate. It's always been about parties, it's always been about lusty life, and we've all survived it. It is the popular music in the country today. I guess I read these lyrics, Terry, and some of them, from some of the bands I've seen from the PMRC, the ones that they've sent me, you do kind of shudder, and I think, "boy, I wonder what a thirteen year-old thinks when they [sic] see that." But I guess I survived Elvis, and I guess that you did, and I guess I'm a little more confident, I guess, than you that they'll survive [[Wikipedia:Mötley Crüe|Mötley Crüe]].
 '''Marshall: Yeah, they'll survive, but part of it is that parents like to have some control over what their children are learning in terms of their moral values or whatever. Do we want our pre-teenagers to become sensitized [sic] to violence?

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
-<blockquote>The following is the transcript of a telephone conversation that took place during the broadcast of the program Nightcall, which aired Sunday nights on WRIF-FM in Detroit. The main phone participants are Peter Werbe, the host of ''Nightcall,'' and [[Frank Zappa]], who at the time was testifying at Senate hearings regarding pending legislation that would require the printing of song lyrics on the covers of record albums.
+<blockquote>The following is the transcript of a telephone conversation that took place during the broadcast of the program Nightcall, which aired Sunday nights on WRIF-FM in Detroit. The main phone participants are Peter Werbe, the host of ''Nightcall,'' and [[Biography|Frank Zappa]], who at the time was testifying at Senate hearings regarding pending legislation that would require the printing of song lyrics on the covers of record albums.
 This conversation took place October 28, 1985. Please note that first one or two minutes were lost.</blockquote>
-''' ... a few of the names behind those initials that Frank Zappa has been mentioning here. The [[PMRC]], of course, the Parents Music Resource Center, that's the group that wants essentially a labeling of lyrics on albums that they feel violate their standards. Printing all lyrics on back covers, keeping albums with explicit covers under the counters, and rating live concerts and then reassessing the record contracts of those artists ... <br>
+''' ... a few of the names behind those initials that Frank Zappa has been mentioning here. The PMRC, of course, the [[Parents Music Resource Center]], that's the group that wants essentially a labeling of lyrics on albums that they feel violate their standards. Printing all lyrics on back covers, keeping albums with explicit covers under the counters, and rating live concerts and then reassessing the record contracts of those artists ... <br>
 That's not correct.