Talk:Freak Out! - Revision history

Jason.Kreitzer at 18:20, 21 December 2021

2021-12-21T18:20:17Z

Tonefish: /* Vinyl Gatefold - Data Differences */ new section

2011-02-11T09:26:56Z

Vinyl Gatefold - Data Differences: new section

Tonefish: Version - Yes! Press on!

2008-05-18T03:42:11Z

Version - Yes! Press on!

Tonefish: /* Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext? */ Phase 2

2008-05-13T10:19:08Z

Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?: Phase 2

Maroual at 23:28, 12 May 2008

2008-05-12T23:28:56Z

Maroual: /* Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext? */

2008-05-12T23:27:24Z

Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?

Tonefish: /* Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext? */

2008-05-11T19:23:19Z

Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?

Duncan: /* Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext? */

2008-05-11T15:49:01Z

Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?

Tonefish: New section: Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?

2008-05-11T12:22:14Z

New section: Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext?

Maroual at 23:14, 15 July 2007

2007-07-15T23:14:17Z

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 However I also have to underline that:
-* I do not particularly trust the release dates and numbers published in the ZFT Official Discography. And I do not think we need to discuss on every page about how they sometimes change the release dates/release order. Should we use the first observed shipping date or the deadlines the ZFT use in their past and future roadmaps ? In the last version (see last .pdf available at [[External Links#Official Sites|zappa.com - The Official Frank Zappa Website]]), they simply removed [[London Symphony Orchestra Vol. I]] which was previously release #38 and then they shifted (sometimes worse) the following numbers until #48. Also they are they only people in the world to say that [[WOIIFTM]] was released in September 1968...
+* I do not particularly trust the release dates and numbers published in the ZFT Official Discography. And I do not think we need to discuss on every page about how they sometimes change the release dates/release order. Should we use the first observed shipping date or the deadlines the ZFT use in their past and future roadmaps ? In the last version (see last .pdf available at [[External Links#Official Sites|zappa.com - The Official Frank Zappa Website]]), they simply removed [[London Symphony Orchestra Vol. I]] which was previously release #38 and then they shifted (sometimes worse) the following numbers until #48. Also they are they only people in the world to say that WOIIFTM was released in September 1968...
 * We need to follow consistent format and style, this is what I attempted to do with Anchors in the [[Freak Out!#Notes|Article page Notes section]]. Any comment is welcome ;-) For any reason it was not possible to apply the Wikipedia guidelines described in [[Wikipedia:Citing sources]] & [[Wikipedia:Footnotes]]
 * I always prefer to redirect to the [[External Links]] page rather than directly pointing to the site URL. So we have only one place to update in the case of any Internet address change.

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:26, 11 February 2011
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	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 20:42, 17 May 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 20:42, 17 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	== Vinyl Gatefold - Data Differences ==
		+
		+	I've noticed various errata on early sleeves. Some of which may help establish 'order of release' in relation to various labels of the release. Still trying to establish what the 'order' is!!
		+
		+	Here's what I've noticed;
		+	Early issues, of course, have the "Freak Out Hot Spots" map offer.<br>
		+	However, some have 'child killer' on label, 'child killers' on sleeve.<br>
		+	Some have "(Unfinished Ballet In Two Tableaus)", others "(Unfinished Ballet In Two Tableaux)"<br>
		+	Is one on the "Hot Spot" sleeve & the other on sleeve with the "hot spot" ad deleted?<br>
		+	Is one Canadian, the other US?<br>
		+	Any discovery info here please...<br>[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 09:26, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:42, 18 May 2008
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	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 03:19, 13 May 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 03:19, 13 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+
		+	Yes Maroual, go on, go on!
		+
		+	I think it would now be helpful to the reader to explain the reason for highlighted Catalogue Numbers & what they will give you.
		+
		+	A single explanatory line of text just above the [[Freak Out!]] Version chart? Something like "Catalogue Numbers that are highlighted will take you to a photo-reference of the Center Label" (and any available variants?)??
		+
		+	I can now see my UK version & your UK version have text differences below the RPM area & the Cat No area. I'm Freaking Out already!
		+
		+	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 20:42, 17 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:19, 13 May 2008
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	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:28, 12 May 2008 (PDT)		[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:28, 12 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+
		+	Thanks Maroual
		+
		+	'''Civilized Chart Phase 2'''....
		+	How about doing something like this?:
		+
		+	1) In the chart make the '''Comment''' box an '''Edition''' box.
		+	(No Comment Allowed).
		+
		+	2) The '''Edition''' then shown in the box (ie '''US Edition''') could be highlighted when a '''picture''' of it is available (or any '''info''' is available).
		+
		+	3) Clicking on this link would take you to a NEW PAGE (I'll call it '''X''' for now) showing a '''US Edition 1st cover photo''', plus any '''Comments''' regarding later versions, subtle print changes, stickers et al. This page could be shared by the CD version to keep things minimal in management terms.
		+
		+	4) '''Catalogue Nos''' would also be repeated below this '''cover photo''' & highlighted for the reason below:
		+
		+	5) (Back to the '''Catalogue''' box in the chart) When the '''Cat No''' is entered it can be highlighted when a '''Label picture''' is available. (which it will be if you've got a cover).
		+
		+	Thus, when either '''Cat No''' is clicked (in the Chart Cat box, pardon the pun, or on the new '''X''' page) it takes you to another NEW PAGE (I'll appropriately call it '''Z''' for now) showing ORIGINAL '''Label'''.
		+
		+	Below this '''label''' can go the '''Matrix''' for it. (which you've got if you've got a label).
		+
		+	6) Thus, anyone with a '''US Edition''', same '''cover''', DIFFERENT '''label''' can start to run a thread below the '''original label''', including '''matrix'''.
		+
		+	7) Both '''Page X''' and '''Page Z''' can have a '''footer-list''' of '''Country Editions''' as click-thrus to save going back to the chart to get another Country's cover or label.
		+
		+	8) The core of what I'm suggesting means that what you've got doesn't change, only matrices get deleted, and visitors don't have to go through any new radical learning experience. Also, if you're not geeky about covers & labels and just need the facts you don't need to go behind the scenes. Your existing chart has done its job.
		+
		+	If you can do this then I think the 'different pressings' aspect will possibly begin to solve itself. Perhaps I was a bit rash in suggesting having every pressing number known to man. We just need to know what the number looks like, whether a number got changed 'cos the pressing plant/record company went bust or whatever. This is just a text thread thing that Them Out There Who Are Interested will take up...
		+
		+	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 03:19, 13 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:28, 12 May 2008
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	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:27, 12 May 2008 (PDT)		[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:27, 12 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	BTW
		+
		+	This discussion is not over as IMO I have not completeley answered ;-)
		+
		+	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:28, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:27, 12 May 2008
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	There you go. An update '''is''' needed. Was my album a release date of '70, '71 or '72?. The single albums you refer to of the '60s need to be seen in the top boxes of the chart too. Were they edited or shortened albums? (By the way, the 'foldy-over' bits are normally called 'mitered glue tabs', external [visible] or internal ['invisible']. Great if you can find that site, cheers.		There you go. An update '''is''' needed. Was my album a release date of '70, '71 or '72?. The single albums you refer to of the '60s need to be seen in the top boxes of the chart too. Were they edited or shortened albums? (By the way, the 'foldy-over' bits are normally called 'mitered glue tabs', external [visible] or internal ['invisible']. Great if you can find that site, cheers.
	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 12:23, 11 May 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 12:23, 11 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+
		+	Hi [[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]],
		+
		+	Thanks for your help.
		+
		+	The catalog external link to the label picture is indeed a very good idea.
		+
		+	Regarding the different pressings sharing the same catalog numbers, I don't exactly know how to deal with these. It is a complex topic due to the lack of sources. However if you have purchased some records when they were initially released then your help is more than precious.
		+
		+	Sometimes I feel like moving the matrix numbers somewhere else because it makes the table uneasy to read. And a single cell is certainly too small in the case of many different matrix numbers.
		+
		+	Feel free to make very long comments, I enjoyed your post very much.
		+
		+	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:27, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, 11 May 2008
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	What you have is the 1970's Polydor reissue of the Verve catalogue. The UK 60's (I was there and I do remember them ;-) issue was a single album (VLP or SVLP) with a Garrod & Lofthouse cover with the foldy over bits (is there a name for these - Tabs?) on the outside. Later sleeves were constructed with them folded into the sleeve - look no join. There is a website somewhere that lists all the label variations and matrix numbers - I shall try and track it down.[[User:Duncan\|Duncan]]		What you have is the 1970's Polydor reissue of the Verve catalogue. The UK 60's (I was there and I do remember them ;-) issue was a single album (VLP or SVLP) with a Garrod & Lofthouse cover with the foldy over bits (is there a name for these - Tabs?) on the outside. Later sleeves were constructed with them folded into the sleeve - look no join. There is a website somewhere that lists all the label variations and matrix numbers - I shall try and track it down.[[User:Duncan\|Duncan]]
		+
		+
		+	There you go. An update '''is''' needed. Was my album a release date of '70, '71 or '72?. The single albums you refer to of the '60s need to be seen in the top boxes of the chart too. Were they edited or shortened albums? (By the way, the 'foldy-over' bits are normally called 'mitered glue tabs', external [visible] or internal ['invisible']. Great if you can find that site, cheers.
		+	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 12:23, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:49, 11 May 2008
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	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 05:22, 11 May 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 05:22, 11 May 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	What you have is the 1970's Polydor reissue of the Verve catalogue. The UK 60's (I was there and I do remember them ;-) issue was a single album (VLP or SVLP) with a Garrod & Lofthouse cover with the foldy over bits (is there a name for these - Tabs?) on the outside. Later sleeves were constructed with them folded into the sleeve - look no join. There is a website somewhere that lists all the label variations and matrix numbers - I shall try and track it down.[[User:Duncan\|Duncan]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:22, 11 May 2008
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	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:14, 15 Jul 2007 (PDT)		[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:14, 15 Jul 2007 (PDT)
		+
		+	== Table Version - Brilliant! How about a Label hypertext? ==
		+
		+	Hi Zappurists... this is my first (hopefully contributive) venture into the realms of your excellent site, so please excuse me if I blunder about a bit*.
		+
		+	I happened to be checking through the site discography to see how sadly incomplete my collection was. I personally found the 'Table Version' very informative- it certainly helps visitors to discover/ascertain if they have an original or a re-issue for example, or a US/UK variant.
		+	(Simply having an album photo obviously doesn't do this)
		+
		+	As I'm not yet feeling fully competent in tinkering/editing an entry, here's what I'd like to see happening in the Versions section. I'll do it, if someone can hold my hand and enough of you agree...
		+
		+	Example: I have a UK copy of 'Freak Out!'. It's a gatefold cover, double stereo album. The back of the cover indicates 'Verve' logo, followed by 'Marketed by Polydor'.
		+	The disc labels are the normal Verve logo style, with a small text addition 'Polydor Records Limited'. Publication date is 1966.
		+
		+	The above facts go against the info contained in 1.1 Original Stereo, line 2.
		+	Which says: "UK edition. Polydor reissued early albums having acquired the MGM/Verve label in 1972.
		+	2352 023 & 2352 024 on labels.
		+
		+	It's been said that if you remember the 60's then you weren't there but, if I remember correctly, I purchased this album in the late 60s - well before the Polydor takeover of Verve.
		+
		+	Am I not correct in thinking that if Polydor issued this in 1972 within the UK then the label would read 'Polydor (logo) - published 1972 under licence to Verve records' or similar? There could be a whole raft of label variants in this Freak Out instance.
		+
		+	What I'm therefore suggesting is a visual aid to Labels/Covers.
		+
		+	Under the '''Comments''' column the '''Edition''' could be hypertexed to a photo of the cover (in most cases the same cover, but '''Japanese Edition''' would pictorially clarify a difference, for example).
		+
		+	Under the '''catalogue''' column the given Label Cat No ie '''Set No. 2683-004''' could be hypertexed to a photo of a centre Label. Which would enable clarification and be ideal for anyone with an album and no sleeve... heaven forbid. (For my version of Freak Out! it's actually 2352 023 & 2352 024 with 'set no 2683-004' in parenthesis below it). Here's a sample of a label from my copy of Freak Out!
		+
		+
		+
		+	[[Image:Vervefreak.jpg]]
		+
		+	How does it compare to what others have? It's certainly not yelling "Hey we're Polydor and Verve is no more".
		+
		+
		+	To add fuel to the fire, how about a sub-plot click-thru of '''pressings''', where everyone goes through their sets and hands in (what becomes a subsequent thread of) Matrix Numbers from the run-out wax of their copies? A great way to overview the scope of pressings before deletion...?
		+	If you're interested, my Freak Out wax is
		+
		+	Side 1) A1 420 1 1 5.
		+	Side 2) B1 420 1 1 5.
		+	Side 3) A1 420 1 1 2.
		+	Side 4) B1 420 1 1 5.
		+
		+	All the above is probably only of worth to the vinyl period, I don't know how much variation might/did take place in CD centre disc labels.
		+
		+	Finally, my '''sleeve''' track list for Side 4 states tableaux 1 is "Ritual Dance of the Child '''Killer'''" rather than the plural "...'''Killers'''" which appears on the '''label'''. (he! he! I found a print error, but which is correct? What did Frank want to call it?). Does this happen on the US/other versions?
		+
		+	Meanwhile, a great site. Congrats to all concerned.
		+	*If you don't edit me I promise I'll keep it shorter next time.
		+
		+	--[[User:Tonefish\|Tonefish]] 05:22, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:14, 15 July 2007
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−	==~~=============~~==	+	==8-Track==


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	[[User:Duncan\|Duncan]] 07:32, 13 Jul 2007 (PDT)		[[User:Duncan\|Duncan]] 07:32, 13 Jul 2007 (PDT)
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+	Hey,
		+
		+	That's cool, thanks.
		+
		+	The picture is very close to the RCOA-33969-C cassette.
		+
		+	Never seen it yet either.
		+
		+	I found a bunch of other 8-track tapes to report, I will do it asap ;)
		+
		+	[[User:Maroual\|Maroual]] 16:14, 15 Jul 2007 (PDT)