David Walley's Exclusive Interview - Revision history

Spider of Destiny at 22:09, 6 August 2026

2026-08-06T22:09:45Z

Spider of Destiny at 02:08, 28 January 2025

2025-01-28T02:08:25Z

Jason.Kreitzer: Not enough information out there not related to this one interview.

2021-11-04T14:57:54Z

Not enough information out there not related to this one interview.

Jason.Kreitzer at 13:48, 10 September 2021

2021-09-10T13:48:57Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 15:15, 3 September 2021

2021-09-03T15:15:20Z

Duncan at 13:20, 11 August 2021

2021-08-11T13:20:51Z

Jason.Kreitzer at 19:41, 17 July 2021

2021-07-17T19:41:35Z

Spider of Destiny at 07:46, 1 May 2019

2019-05-01T07:46:38Z

Spider of Destiny at 07:43, 1 May 2019

2019-05-01T07:43:19Z

Spider of Destiny at 13:14, 3 January 2012

2012-01-03T13:14:46Z

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 '''The material you would have to work with if writing "No Commercial Potential" today would certainly be richer and different than the material you had available in 1971. I would assume the way in which Zappa's life changed over the years might alter how you would view him as a biographical subject. How has the way in which you viewed Zappa changed since first being inspired by Vonnegut's words?<br>
-I don't know about "richer and different." I wrote "No Commercial Potential" to contextualize Frank, to give readers some idea of where he came from. Most pop stars have no context other than the commercial world. Zappa's was much more rich. I mean, the Sixties was quite an interesting period in American history, very unique. Once one has a context, everything else follows from there. Look, Frank was not a hippie, he was a freak. Hippie is a made-up merchandizing word. Here's the way it goes: beatnik-head-hippie-doper-yuppie. Zappa's satire touched on all those changed. Contemporary American political history was also part of the pool from which he drew his inspiration, the newspapers, TV. If you're a satirist, you work with what you have. Well hell, he was like Mort Sahl or [[Lenny Bruce]] who used newspapers as part of their acts, to draw material from. Zappa drew from the electronic newspaper, so to speak.
+I don't know about "richer and different." I wrote "No Commercial Potential" to contextualize Frank, to give readers some idea of where he came from. Most pop stars have no context other than the commercial world. Zappa's was much more rich. I mean, the Sixties was quite an interesting period in American history, very unique. Once one has a context, everything else follows from there. Look, Frank was not a hippie, he was a freak. Hippie is a made-up merchandizing word. Here's the way it goes: beatnik-head-hippie-doper-[[Yuppies|yuppie]]. Zappa's satire touched on all those changed. Contemporary American political history was also part of the pool from which he drew his inspiration, the newspapers, TV. If you're a satirist, you work with what you have. Well hell, he was like Mort Sahl or [[Lenny Bruce]] who used newspapers as part of their acts, to draw material from. Zappa drew from the electronic newspaper, so to speak.
 '''Yes, that's one of things I find so fascinating about Zappa: he embraced everything, commercial and otherwise. He was beyond commercialism. It's interesting he was so caught-up with it in terms of desiring commercial acceptance. On one hand he satirically bashed it, yet on a personal level he strove for it to embrace him. Do you feel he was trying to fight a losing battle in his attempt to redefine what is commercial, which is what would have had to happen had the commercial world accepted him?<br>

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 Two for two – Zappa and Kovacs ain't too shabby for this cultural historian! [Smiles]
-David Walley lives in Williamstown, Massachusetts with his wife, four mini horses, seven cats, two dogs, and various other animals. He continues his freelance writing, is currently working on his next book, and a collaboration with Nigey Lennon.
+David Walley lives in Williamstown, Massachusetts with his wife, four mini horses, seven cats, two dogs, and various other animals. He continues his freelance writing, is currently working on his next book, and a collaboration with [[Nigey Lennon]].
 [[Category:Articles about Zappa]]

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 [[Image:dwalley_fz.jpg|frame|David Walley (Left) hanging out with Frank Zappa (right) at Newport Jazz Festival, 1969.]]
-''The interviewer is [[Paul Remington]], David Walley wrote a controversial book about Frank Zappa which recieved enormous criticism and praise in almost equal measure, here is a great interview in which he gives us his insight into Frank Zappa.<br>
+''The interviewer is Paul Remington, David Walley wrote a controversial book about Frank Zappa which recieved enormous criticism and praise in almost equal measure, here is a great interview in which he gives us his insight into Frank Zappa.<br>
 The interviewer talks to David about his controversial book "[[No Commercial Potential: The Saga of Frank Zappa]]", but most of the interview focuses on Walley's perception of Zappa as a musician and as a man, fascinating reading, enjoy. Thanks to David Walley.<br>

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 '''WE agree on this, but others may not. My objective view isn't that the "negative spin" impression of "No Commercial Potential" came from Frank. I see it as a matter of accepting the human sides of Zappa, which many of his fans (as well as Zappa) find it difficult to do. It's hard for most to see their hero as less than bigger-than-life. It's easier to attack your credibility as the writer. You're the main target. Would you agree, and how have you learned to deal with this?<br>
-I'm too much of a small fry as a writer to give "a good goddamn" about it. I know what I did, I know the care and sweat and toil which went into the writing and research of the book. As a writer, I'm not as heavily invested in myths as fans might be. When I was working as a rock and roll critic in the late Sixties and early Seventies, I met a lot of musicians. Some were decent smart guys while others were just assholes. They weren't pop stars to me. They were, for the most part, my contemporaries, and we talked about a whole range of things: art, music, politics, literature. They knew it was a joke. I knew it was a joke. We just tried to have good conversations about things that mattered. About the only really bad interview I did was with [[Jeff Beck]] and [[Rod Stewart]] when Rocket Rodney was playing with Beck. Between the two of them I couldn't manage to cobble together a half of an interview. But, for the most part, the people I met were quite intelligent. They all admired Zappa for what he was doing too, especially [[The Bonzo Dog Band]] and Viv Stanshall, though I think that there was some sort of mutual admiration society there.
+I'm too much of a small fry as a writer to give "a good goddamn" about it. I know what I did, I know the care and sweat and toil which went into the writing and research of the book. As a writer, I'm not as heavily invested in myths as fans might be. When I was working as a rock and roll critic in the late Sixties and early Seventies, I met a lot of musicians. Some were decent smart guys while others were just assholes. They weren't pop stars to me. They were, for the most part, my contemporaries, and we talked about a whole range of things: art, music, politics, literature. They knew it was a joke. I knew it was a joke. We just tried to have good conversations about things that mattered. About the only really bad interview I did was with [[Jeff Beck]] and [[Wikipedia:Rod Stewart|Rod Stewart]] when Rocket Rodney was playing with Beck. Between the two of them I couldn't manage to cobble together a half of an interview. But, for the most part, the people I met were quite intelligent. They all admired Zappa for what he was doing too, especially [[The Bonzo Dog Band]] and Viv Stanshall, though I think that there was some sort of mutual admiration society there.
 '''That's understandable, as I'm sure a large segment of your audience were not offended by your approach. Have you received any feedback from individuals that really made you feel good about the book. I'm sure you've always felt good about it, but when someone you admire and respect comes forward to express kind words, that can really mean a lot.<br>

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 '''Did you spend enough time in the studio with him to be able to gain a sense for how he "operated" in the studio, using the studio as a tool? If so, can you share some of your experience?<br>
-I never saw him record but I did spent time with him while he was editing [[Uncle Meat]] (around the same time that Wadleigh was cutting the negative for "Woodstock"). It can be dull-fucking-boring work unless you're into it. I remember the evening because I'd gotten a freebie out to LA as – get this – a reporter for the East Village Other covering [[Playboy]] After Dark. Frank said I was welcome to hang out. He'd be in the film editing studio and if I wanted to come and hang, I was welcome. As a rock and roller back in those days, the record companies had a little more money to spread around. There were junkets (just like the grown-up media). Dig this! I was given a roundtrip first-class trip on TWA, comped to stay at the Tropicana Motor Lodge on Sunset Blvd., a notorious sink of rock and roll depravity. I went out there with $20, I came back with $9. So I guess the answer is that I really didn't see him in his studio environment. Look, any piece of technology connected to media, once Frank got the hang of it, was a useful studio tool: Moog synthesizers, ARP synthesizers, all that Guitar Player World techno-shit. He was a tinkerer, an authentic American character. Maybe he thought of himself as Edison or Nicola [[Tesla]], for all I know. But, again, I'm a cultural historian looking for patterns or better, allowing them to coalesce. Still, it's the quality of time spent with Frank, alone. I always had to be on my toes. After all, I did understand he was working. And it's true, artists use the excuse of working in all kinds of ways. Some do so to avoid their wives or families or the accreted bullshit that builds around the two. If you have an understanding wife, you're a lucky man. If you have an understanding supportive wife who not only can tell you things but you'll listen – that you're acting like a jerk around your kids – then you've got a jewel. To be an artist's wife – to be an asset – she's got to be as creative with what she does as you with what you do. Luckily, mine's a therapist and a damned good one, If the truth be known. I owe so much of what I am now to her. Writing is also my life, but without the other human component, it really wouldn't be what I want it to be – with my words having weight, power and force, making me able (in whatever I address myself) to make a statement which just hangs out there like ''Voodoo Chile'' by [[Jimi Hendrix]]. (Well, what can I say? It's a powerful, powerful transcendent jam.) [Smiles]
+I never saw him record but I did spent time with him while he was editing [[Uncle Meat]] (around the same time that Wadleigh was cutting the negative for "Woodstock"). It can be dull-fucking-boring work unless you're into it. I remember the evening because I'd gotten a freebie out to LA as – get this – a reporter for the East Village Other covering [[Playboy]] After Dark. Frank said I was welcome to hang out. He'd be in the film editing studio and if I wanted to come and hang, I was welcome. As a rock and roller back in those days, the record companies had a little more money to spread around. There were junkets (just like the grown-up media). Dig this! I was given a roundtrip first-class trip on TWA, comped to stay at the Tropicana Motor Lodge on Sunset Blvd., a notorious sink of rock and roll depravity. I went out there with $20, I came back with $9. So I guess the answer is that I really didn't see him in his studio environment. Look, any piece of technology connected to media, once Frank got the hang of it, was a useful studio tool: Moog synthesizers, ARP synthesizers, all that Guitar Player World techno-shit. He was a tinkerer, an authentic American character. Maybe he thought of himself as Edison or Nicola [[Nikola Tesla|Tesla]], for all I know. But, again, I'm a cultural historian looking for patterns or better, allowing them to coalesce. Still, it's the quality of time spent with Frank, alone. I always had to be on my toes. After all, I did understand he was working. And it's true, artists use the excuse of working in all kinds of ways. Some do so to avoid their wives or families or the accreted bullshit that builds around the two. If you have an understanding wife, you're a lucky man. If you have an understanding supportive wife who not only can tell you things but you'll listen – that you're acting like a jerk around your kids – then you've got a jewel. To be an artist's wife – to be an asset – she's got to be as creative with what she does as you with what you do. Luckily, mine's a therapist and a damned good one, If the truth be known. I owe so much of what I am now to her. Writing is also my life, but without the other human component, it really wouldn't be what I want it to be – with my words having weight, power and force, making me able (in whatever I address myself) to make a statement which just hangs out there like ''Voodoo Chile'' by [[Jimi Hendrix]]. (Well, what can I say? It's a powerful, powerful transcendent jam.) [Smiles]
 '''It sounds like your married life and working life are in balance. Is it completely separate, or do you involve your wife in your work? For instance, have her proof material, involve her in your ideas, etc.<br>

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 '''How did Frank deal with it, from what you saw? He appears to have divided his life into two areas, his music and work, and his family, never involving Gail in his music. Yet, he did involve a few of the kids in his music at times, and Gail did run the home business. They seemed to be involved in his working world to some extent.<br>
-As I must have said, Frank was a terrific teacher and I saw that the pitfalls were of imbalance, the need for the balance between force and form, that old occult dictum. As I said, the music business was a moral/spiritual theater and if you had eyes to see it, and the brains to process all that information, you could learn how to live a successful life. There are positive and negative lessons. It's like learning how to smoke dope, or deal with psychedelics, or even alcohol. It's all about finding limits – testing yourself. When I was a kid, I used to have this saying by [[Thomas Jefferson]] over my desk, "You don't know what is enough until you know what is more than enough." Really, it's all about maps. You can be in the right place, but with the wrong maps or no maps, you're lost.
+As I must have said, Frank was a terrific teacher and I saw that the pitfalls were of imbalance, the need for the balance between force and form, that old occult dictum. As I said, the music business was a moral/spiritual theater and if you had eyes to see it, and the brains to process all that information, you could learn how to live a successful life. There are positive and negative lessons. It's like learning how to smoke dope, or deal with psychedelics, or even alcohol. It's all about finding limits – testing yourself. When I was a kid, I used to have this saying by [[wikipedia:Thomas Jefferson|Thomas Jefferson]] over my desk, "You don't know what is enough until you know what is more than enough." Really, it's all about maps. You can be in the right place, but with the wrong maps or no maps, you're lost.
 '''Did you spend enough time in the studio with him to be able to gain a sense for how he "operated" in the studio, using the studio as a tool? If so, can you share some of your experience?<br>

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-The Controversial Author [[David Walley]]'s Exclusive Interview About [[Frank Zappa]]!
+The Controversial Author [[David Walley]]'s Exclusive Interview About [[Biography|Frank Zappa]]!
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 '''"Time and those waves" is an interesting way to describe it. You begin "No Commercial Potential" describing how Zappa's concept of time and those waves applied to his work. What was there about this approach Zappa found appealing? He carried his use of "time and those waves" through [[Civilization Phaze III]].<br>
-I liked the way he used his own time, enfolded into his creative time, how he made it all part of his [[Project/Object]], i.e. his larger oeuvre. You see, the Project/Object was all of his time: interviews of him, films etc., his concerts, his studio work. To understand the whole scope of the Project/Object perforce one has to be conversant with ALL and EVERYTHING. Which is what, in some ways, "[[You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore]]" is all about. Once one grasps that [[Conceptual Continuity]], one can have a full appreciation. Of course, as I might have said, Zappa was at times not the best judge of what was really good, and from his perspective, everything he ever did showed great genius, or a genius in the making. Not always the case.
+I liked the way he used his own time, enfolded into his creative time, how he made it all part of his [[Project/Object concept|Project/Object]], i.e. his larger oeuvre. You see, the Project/Object was all of his time: interviews of him, films etc., his concerts, his studio work. To understand the whole scope of the Project/Object perforce one has to be conversant with ALL and EVERYTHING. Which is what, in some ways, "[[You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore]]" is all about. Once one grasps that [[Conceptual Continuity]], one can have a full appreciation. Of course, as I might have said, Zappa was at times not the best judge of what was really good, and from his perspective, everything he ever did showed great genius, or a genius in the making. Not always the case.
 '''And, of course, as you've pointed out, the only person who really was conversed with ALL and EVERYTHING was Zappa. His vault holds evidence of this. With him gone, who can assess everything that's in there from memory? So, the ''Project/Object'' was primarily an appreciated concept within Zappa with us enjoying his ''Conceptual Continuity'' as an observer. Would this be a correct statement?<br>

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 '''I don't mean to slam Watson. I've heard him interviewed, and was quite taken by his intelligence and ability to analyze. And he is very insightful at times. For me, he has a tendency to over-analyze. [[Frank Zappa - The Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play|Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play]] contains a lot of really interesting information. I just didn't care for the way he wrapped his own words around some of the information, and the slant he put on the book.<br>
-That's exactly right, and that's exactly what I told him though I don't think he responded to me, or if he did, it was in code. Life's too short to be spending time playing the kinds of intellectual games Ben finds fascinating. But, then again, England only has four television stations. [Smiles] Real intellectuals don't need to obfuscate what they analyze. Put another way, real intellectuals make things easy to comprehend because they have an overview, and that's something I don't think Ben has achieved yet. Maybe it's a function of his age or the company he keeps in England, I really don't know. For me it was showboating of the worst kind. I'm not interested in the kinds of power games or submission and domination that Ben seems to prefer, at least in ''[[Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play]]''.
+That's exactly right, and that's exactly what I told him though I don't think he responded to me, or if he did, it was in code. Life's too short to be spending time playing the kinds of intellectual games Ben finds fascinating. But, then again, England only has four television stations. [Smiles] Real intellectuals don't need to obfuscate what they analyze. Put another way, real intellectuals make things easy to comprehend because they have an overview, and that's something I don't think Ben has achieved yet. Maybe it's a function of his age or the company he keeps in England, I really don't know. For me it was showboating of the worst kind. I'm not interested in the kinds of power games or submission and domination that Ben seems to prefer, at least in ''Negative Dialectics Of Poodle Play''.
 '''Have you read any of the other Zappa books, aside from Watsons, and have any impressed you?<br>

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 '''This seems to be the general approach his family has taken. While I might refrain from saying they are "detached" from the commercial community and the public eye, they do live on their own island, much the way Zappa established himself. Do you feel they are this way because they've learned to be that way, or because they've learned that's what works?<br>
-Perhaps they have learned, but it seems that his kids are just like in the Steely Dan song, "Hollywood Kids" (Making movies of themselves, you know they don't give a fuck about anybody else, etc., etc.). I guess if your Dad's a cool rock and roll star, even if you only see him for less than six months a year, that's worth points in the high school. Still in all, Frank was a good provider for his family, that was his function and he did it well. As far as not being around for your kids when they're growing up (or even when you're there) – not being able to see them because you're on a different schedule – artists have that problem with their kids all the time, it just depends on how they deal with it, in my opinion.
+Perhaps they have learned, but it seems that his kids are just like in the [[Steely Dan]] song, "Hollywood Kids" (Making movies of themselves, you know they don't give a fuck about anybody else, etc., etc.). I guess if your Dad's a cool rock and roll star, even if you only see him for less than six months a year, that's worth points in the high school. Still in all, Frank was a good provider for his family, that was his function and he did it well. As far as not being around for your kids when they're growing up (or even when you're there) – not being able to see them because you're on a different schedule – artists have that problem with their kids all the time, it just depends on how they deal with it, in my opinion.
 '''How did Frank deal with it, from what you saw? He appears to have divided his life into two areas, his music and work, and his family, never involving Gail in his music. Yet, he did involve a few of the kids in his music at times, and Gail did run the home business. They seemed to be involved in his working world to some extent.<br>