Talk:In France

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Thanks guys for the comments on my Peter Green CC for In France.

I'm behaving like an over-enthusiastic fido at the moment, but I think I'm getting the hang of it.

Take the point on 'some fans' being unqualified. I based it on the 'fact' that among about 3 distinctly different social groups of people (fans) I knew at the time this album was released, all of them picked up on the notion that this was another Zappa leitmotiv- a 'dig' (using the phonetic of Peter Green) by the inbuilt Zappa nose that could sniff out the negatives that can result (by public elevation) from plain virtuosity appreciation to the 'sucking dry' or 'ejaculations' of repetitive stardom. Perhaps in the same vein as FZ's ref to Clapton? e.g. Nasal Retentive Calliope Music.

Yes, I knew some Weird People then. Some of them had Short Hair.

Is this simply a shallow verse about a blow job? Why a 'mystery' blow job... a ref to some French glory-hole...or the setting up of the next line?

I did attempt some research. I shall do more. --Tonefish 15:48, 18 May 2008 (PDT)


I suspect it means what it says. Peter is a slang nickname for the penis. It was nothing more than infelicitous fellatio which turned peter green. Duncan 10:52, 19 May 2008 (PDT)


Yep. That suspicion was forwarded at the time (in aforesaid 'collective fan notions'), which touched on the duality of meaning through the juxtaposition of words and thus included the background idea of this peter/penis (within the modern condition of psychoanalysis and rock-star trauma i.e. Peter Green) as being the 'accepted' contemporary image of the guitar as a phallic symbol...

e.g. "The symbolic Phallus is the concept of being the ultimate man, and having this is compared to having the divine gift of God."

Thrusting your symbolism into the limelight can cause it to become debased or turn 'green', as FZ was fully aware... e.g. "It's [the rock industry] been pretty much reduced to Weedly-weedly-wee, make a face, hold your guitar like it's your weenie, point it heavenward, and look like you're really doing something. Then, you get a big ovation while the smoke bombs go off, and the motorised lights in your truss twirl around." (Frank's Wild Years, '93).

Which raised questions in the discussion such as, if he's placed in CCCs such as 'pooch', 'poodles' and 'Bow-Wow' then why not '...turn your weenie green'? If us ordinary folks had been writing this number we'd doubtless have relied on this regularly burnt FZ favorite CCC of weenie. (Which, incidentally, probably needs a CCC page).

It was collectively agreed (by us at the time) that FZ didn't 'just do things'- he never stopped thinking and this was a case of what we called FZ's use of 'pertinent serendipity' in his juxtaposing peter and green. Someone suggested it might have been defamatory if capitals had been used.

Then again, maybe not. As you say, it could just be a mystery blow-job. Have I made this Glory-hole boogie a mess? --Tonefish 10:22, 20 May 2008 (PDT)