Congress Shall Make No Law (The Track)

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Transcript

"Congress Shall Make No Law . . ."

Chairman: (...) Mister Frank Zappa.

[Gavel strikes]

Chairman: Mister Zappa, thank you very much for being with us. Please proceed.

Frank Zappa: Ok, my name is Frank Zappa. This is my attorney Larry Stein from Los Angeles. Can you hear me?

Chairman: Could you- if you could speak very directly and clearly into the microphone, I'd appreciate it.

FZ: Ok, my name is Frank Zappa. This is my attorney Larry Stein. Em, the statement that I prepared, that I sent you a hundred copies of, is five pages long, so... I have shortened it down and am going to read a condensed version of it. Certain things have happened, ah I have been listening to the ah event in the other room and have heard some conflicting reports as to whether or not people in this committee want legislation. I understand that Mister Hollings does from his comments. Is that correct?

Chairman: I- I think you'd better concentrate on your testimony, rather than asking questions to the committee Mister Zappa.

FZ: The reason I need to ask it, because if it I have to change something in my testimony if some[thing]- if- if there is not a clearcut version of whether or not legislation is what is being discussed here. So I- I'm-

Chairman: Do the best you can, because I- I don't think anybody here can characterize Mister Hollings- Senator Hollings' position.

FZ: Ok, I'll I'll carry on with the ah the issue then. The first thing I-

Senator Exon: Mister Chairman, I might help him out just a little bit. I might make a statement.

FZ: Yes.

Senator Exon: This is one Senator that might be interested in legislation and/or regulation ah to some extent, ah recognizing the problems with free right of expression and my previously expressed views that I don't believe I should be telling other people what they have to listen to. But I really believe that the suggestion made by the original panel was some kind of an arrangement ah for voluntarily ah policing this in the music industry as a correct way to go. So if it'll help you out in your testimony, ah I might join Senator Hollings in- ah or others in some kind of legislation and/or regulation, unless the free enterprise system, both the producers and you as the performers, see fit to clean up your act.

FZ: OK, thank you. Then I- Ok, [it's as hardly voluntary?] The First thing I'd like to do, because I know there is some foreign press involved here and they might not un[derstand]- understand what the issue is about, one of the things the issue is about is the the ah First Amendment to the Constitution, and I would- it's short and I'd like to read it so they will understand.

It says: "Congress shall make no l[aw]- no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That's for reference.

These are my personal observations and opinions. I speak on behalf of no group or professional organization. The PMRC proposal is an ill-conceived piece of nonsense which fails to deliver any real benefits to children, infringes the civil liberties of people who are not children, and promises to keep the courts busy for years, dealing with the interpretational and enforcemental problems inherent in the proposal's design.

It is my understanding that, in law, First Amendment Issues are decided with a preference for the least restrictive alternative. In this context, the PMRC demands are the equivalent of treating dandruff by decapitation.

[Laughters]

No one has forced Mrs. Baker or Mrs. Gore to bring Prince or Sheena Easton into their homes. Thanks to the Constitution, they are free to buy other forms of music for their children. Apparently, they insist on purchasing the works of contemporary recording artists in order to support a personal illusion of aerobic sophistication. Ladies, please be advised: The [$]8.98 purchase price does not entitle you to a kiss on the foot from the composer or performer in exchange for a spin on the family Victrola. Taken as a whole, the complete list of PMRC demands reads like an instruction manual for some sinister kind of "toilet training program" to house-break all composers and performers because of the lyrics of a few. Ladies, how dare you?

The ladies' shame must be shared by the bosses of the major labels who, through the RIAA, chose to bargain away the rights of composers, performers, and retailers in order to pass H.R. 2911, The Blank Tape Tax: A private tax levied by an industry on consumers for the benefit of a select group within that industry.

Is this a consumer issue if you bet it is?

The major record labels need to have H.R. 2911 whiz through a few committees before anybody smells a rat. One of them is chaired by Senator Thurmond. Is it a coincidence that Mrs. Thurmond is affiliated with the PMRC?

I can't say she's a member, because the PMRC has no members. Their secretary told me on the phone on last Friday that the PMRC has no members, only founders. I asked how many other DC wives are nonmembers of an organization that raises money by mail, has a tax-exempt status, and seems intent on running the Constitution of the United States through the family paper-shredder. I asked if- I asked her if it was a cult. Finally, she said she couldn't give me an answer and that she had to call their lawyer.

While the wife of the Secretary of Treasury recites "Gonna drive my love inside you" [Laughters] and Senator Gore's wife talks about "Bondage!" [Laughters] and "oral sex at gunpoint" on the CBS Evening News, people in high places work on a tax bill that is so ridiculous, the only way to sneak it through is to keep the public's mind on something else: "Porn rock".

Is the basic issue morality? Is it mental health? Is it an issue at all? The PMRC has created a lot of confusion with improper comparisons between song lyrics, videos, record packaging, radio broadcasting, and live performances. These are all different mediums, and the people who work in them have the right to conduct their business without trade-restraining legislation, whipped up like an instant pudding by The Wives of Big Brother.

Is it proper that the husband of a PMRC nonmember/founder/person sits on any committee considering business pertaining to the Blank Tape Tax or his wife's lobbying organization? Can any committee thus constituted "find facts" in a fair and unbiased manner? This committee has three that we know about: Senator Danforth, Senator Packwood, and Senator Gore. For some reason, they seem to feel there is no conflict of interest involved.

Children in the vulnerable age bracket have a natural love for music. If, as a parent, you believe they should be exposed to something more uplifting than "Sugar Walls," support Music Appreciation programs in schools. Why haven't you considered your child's need for consumer information? Music Appreciation costs very little compared to sports expenditures. Your children have a right to know that something besides pop music exists.

It is unfortunate that the PMRC would rather dispense governmentally sanitized heavy metal music than something more uplifting. Is this an indication of PMRC's personal taste, or just another manifestation of the low priority this administration has placed on education for the arts in America?

The answer, of course, is neither. You can't distract people from thinking about an unfair tax by talking about Music Appreciation. For that you need sex, and lots of it.

The establishment of a rating system, voluntary or otherwise, opens the door to an endless parade of Moral Quality Control Programs based on "Things Certain Christians Don't Like". What if the next bunch of Washington Wives demands a large yellow "J" on all material written or performed by Jews, in order to save helpless children from exposure to concealed Zionist doctrine?

Record ratings are frequently compared to film ratings. Apart from the quantitative difference, there is another that is more important: People who act in films are hired to pretend. No matter how the film is rated, it won't hurt them personally.

Since many musicians write and perform their own material and stand by it as their art (whether you like it or not), an imposed rating will stigmatize them as individuals. How long before composers and performers are told to wear a festive little PMRC arm band with their scarlet letter on it?

Bad facts make bad law, and people who write bad laws are, in my opinion, more dangerous than songwriters who celebrate sexuality. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religious Thought, and the Right to Due Process for composers, performers and retailers are imperiled if the PMRC and the major labels consummate this nasty bargain.

Are we expected to give up article 1 so the big guys can collect an extra dollar on every blank tape and 10 to 25% on tape recorders? What's going on here? Do we get to vote on this tax? I think that this whole matter has gotten completely blown out of proportion, and I agree with ah Senator Exon that there is a very dubious reason for having this event. And I also agree with Senator Exon that you shouldn't be wasting time on stuff like this, because from the beginning I have sensed that it is somebody's hobby project.

Now, I've done a number of interviews on television and people keep saying, can't you take a few steps in their direction, can't you sympathize, can't you empathize? I do more than that at this point. I've got an idea for a way to stop all this stuff and a way to give parents what they really want, which is information, accurate information as to what is inside the album, without providing a stigma for the musicians who have played on the album or the people who sing it or the people who wrote it. And I think that if you listen carefully to this ah idea that it might just get by all of the constitutional problems and everything else.

As far as I am concerned, I have no objection to having all of the lyrics placed on the album routinely, all the time. But there is a little problem. Record companies do not own the right automatically to take these lyrics, because they are owned by publishing companies.

So, just as all the rest of the PMRC proposals would cost money, this would cost money too, because the record companies would need — they- they shouldn't be forced to bear the cost of the extra expenditure to the publisher, to print those lyrics.

Em if you consider that the public needs to be warned about the contents of the records, what better way than to let them see exactly what the songs say? That way you don't have to put any kind of s[ubjective]- of subjective rating on the record. You don't have to call it R, X, D/A, anything. You can read it for yourself.

But in order for it to work properly, the lyrics should be on a uniform kind of a sheet. Maybe even the Government could print those sheets. Maybe it should even be paid for by the Government, if the Government is interested in ah making sure that people have consumer information in this regard.

And ah you also have to realize that if a person buys the record and takes it out of the store, once it's out of the store you can't return it if you read the lyrics at home and decide that little Johnny is not supposed to have it.

I th[ink]- I think that- that should at least be considered, and the idea of imposing these ratings on live concerts, on the albums, ah asking record companies to reevaluate or drop or ah violate contracts that they already have with artists should be thrown out.

That's it all. That's all I have to say.

Chairman: Thank you very much, Mister Zappa. You understand that ah the ah the previous witnesses were not asking for a legislation. And ah I don't know, I can't speak for Senator Hollings, but I think that the prevailing view here is that nobody is asking for legislation.

The question is just focusing on what a lot of people perceive to be a problem, and you've indicated that you at least understand that there is another point of view.

FZ [interrupting]: Yeah, I do understand.

Chairman: And that there are people who think that, you know, parents should have some knowledge of what goes into their home.

FZ: All along my objection has been with the tactics used by these people in order to achieve the goal. I just think the tactics have been really bad, and the whole premise of their proposal- they- they were badly advised in terms of record business law, they were badly advised ah in terms of practicality, or ah they would have known that certain things don't work mechanically with what they sug[gested]- ah suggested.

Chairman: Senator Gore.

Senator Gore: Thank you ve[ry]- very much, ah Mister Chairman.

I found your statement very interesting and, let me say, although I disagree with some of the statements that you make and have made on other occasions, I have been a fan of your music, believe it or not- not. I ah respect you as a true original and- and a tremendously talented musician.

Your suggestion on printing the lyrics on the album is- is a very interesting one, because the PMRC at one point said they would ah propose either a rating and/or a warning, or printing all the lyrics on the album. And- and the ah record companies came back and said that they- ah that- that they didn't want to do that.

But I think an awful lot of people agree with- with your suggestion that one easy way to solve this ah problem for parents would be to put the actual words there, so that ah parents could- could see them. In fact, the National Association of Broadcasters made exactly the same request of the- of the record companies.

So I think your suggestion is a[n]- is an intriguing one and might really be a solution for the problem.

FZ [interrupting]: But the prob[lem]- well you just have to understand that it does cost money, because you can't expect publishers to automatically give up that right, which is a money [?] right for them. Somebody's gonna have to reimburse the publishers, the record industry is going to- without- trying to mess up the album jacket art, and impose the- that lyrics only be printed on the back it should be a- a sheet of paper that is slipped inside the shrink-wrap, that when you take it out you can still have a complete album package. So there is going to be some extra cost for printing it.

But as long as people realize that for this kind of consumer safety you're going to spend some money and as long as you can find a way to pay for it, I think that would be the best way to let people know.

Senator Gore: Well, ah I'm- you know, I don't disagree with that at all. And the ah the ah the- the separate sheet would also solve the problem with ah cassettes as well, because you don't have the- ah the space for words on the cassette packs. And I- I've-

FZ: Well, there would have to be a little accordion-fold then and-

[Laughters]

Senator Gore: Yeah, I was ah- something like that. And ah or- or- or- or- or just fold it nah- but ah but a very large percentage of the ah albums now sold are- are- are sold in cassette form. I've listen[ed]- listened to you a number of times on this ah issue, and ah... I guess the question that- that- that I really wanna- to get from you is or- or- or the ah- the ah statement that I wanna get from you is- is on whether or not you feel that the concern i[s]- is legitimate. Because occasionally you- you feel very strongly about your position, and I understand that. You're very articulate and forceful.

But occasionally you give the impression that you think parents are just silly to- to be concerned at all.

FZ [interrupting]: That well-

Senator Gore [interrupting]: That the-

FZ [interrupting]: That- that's not an accurate impression of ah the matter.

Senator Gore [interrupting]: Okay, well- well, please clarify it, then.

FZ: First of all, I think it is the parents' concern, it is not the Government's concern.

Senator Gore: They agree with you on that.

FZ: Well, that doesn't come across in the way they have been speaking. Ah the- the whole drift that I have gotten, based upon the media blitz that has attended the PMRC and its rise to ah infamy, is that they have a special plan, and it has smelled like legislation up until now.

There are too many things that look like hidden agendas involved with this. And I am a parent. I've got four children. Two of'em are here. I want them to grow up in a country where they can think what they wanna think, be what they wanna be, and not what somebody's wife or somebody ah in Government makes them be. I don't want- I don't wanna have that and I don't think you do either.

Senator Gore: [O]K- OK. But- but now you're back on the- you- you're back on the other issue in- in- L[et]- let me just say briefly on that- that that they say repeatedly: "no legislation, no regulation, no Government action." It certainly sounded pretty clear to me. And...

FZ [interrupting]: OK-

Senator Gore: As far as a- as far as a hidden agenda, you know, I- I- I- I don't ah see one, hear one, or know of one.

FZ: OK, let me you- tell you why I've drawn these conclusions. First of all, they may say, we are not interested in legislation. But there are others who do, and because of their project bad things have happened in this country in the industry.

I believe there is actually some liability. Look at this. You have a situation where, even if you go for the lyric printed thing in the- the record, because of the tendency among Americans to be copycats - one guy commits a murder, you get a copycat murder - now you've got copycat censors.

You get a very bad situation in San Antonio, Texas, right now where they are trying to pass PMRC-type individual ratings and attach them to live concerts, with the mayor down there trying to make a national reputation by putting San Antonio on the map as the first city in the United States to have these regulations, against the suggestion of the city attorney, who says: "I don't think this is constitutional."

But, you know, there is this fervor to get in and do even more, even more.

And the other thing that the ah the PMRC starts off talking about lyrics, but when they take it over into other realms when they start talking about the videos. They're, in fact, you misspoke yourself at the beginning in your introduction when you were talking about the music does this, the music does that. There is a distinct difference between those notes and the chords and the bass line and the rhythm that support the words and the lyrics.

I don't know whether you really are talking about ah controlling the type of music that kids here.

Chairman [interrupting FZ saying "kids"]: The lyrics.

FZ: So just specifically we're talking about lyrics. It began with lyrics. But even looking at the PMRC fundraising letter, in the last paragraph at the bottom of the page it starts looking like it's branching into other areas, when it says: "We realize that this material has pervaded other aspects of society." And it's like: "What, you're gonna fix it all for me?"

Senator Gore: No, I think what they're- I- I mean I think they're acknowledging that some of the ah statements by some of ah their critics who say: "Well, why- why single out the music industry?" But if could have just ah ah h[ave]- have a minute more Mister Chairman. Before you- we got back into that stuff you were saying yes you- you do believe that there is a legitimate concern. And...

FZ [interrupting Senator Gore before "And"]: Yeah. But the legitimate concern is a matter of taste in the- in ah for the individual parent and how much sexual information that parent wants to give their child, at what age, at what time, in what quantity, OK. And I think that, because there is a tendency in the United States to hide sex, which I think is an unhealthy thing to do. And many parents do not give their children good sexual education, in spite of the fact that little books for kids are available, and other parents demand that sexual education be taken out of school, it makes the child vulnerable, because if you don't have something rational to compare it to, when you see or hear about something that is aberrated, you do not perceive it as an aberration. OK?

Senator Gore: OK, I've run out of time. Thanks, Mister Chairman.

Chairman: Senator Rockefeller.

Senator Rockefeller [inaudible]: No questions, Mister Chairman.

Chairman: Senator Gorton.

Senator Gorton: Mister Zappa, I ah am astounded at the ah courtesy and soft-voiced ah nature of the comments of my friend, the Senator from Tennessee. I can only say that I found your statement to be boorish, ah... incredibly and ah insensitively insulting to the people that were here previously; that you could manage to give the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States a bad name, if I felt that you had the slightest understanding of it, which I do not.

You don't have the slightest understanding of the difference between Government action and private action, and ah you have certainly destroyed any case you might otherwise have had with this Senator.

Thank you, Mister Chairman.

FZ: Is this private action?

Chairman: Senator Exon.

Senator Exon: Mister Chairman, thank you very much.

Mister Zappa, let me say that I was surprised that Senator Gore knew and liked your music. I- I must ah confess that I've never heard any of your music, to my knowledge.

[Laughters]

FZ: I wou[ld]- I would be more than happy to recite my lyrics to you.

Senator Exon: Ah can we forgo that?

[Laughters]

Senator Gore: You- you've probably never heard of the Mothers of Invention.

Senator Exon: I have heard ah of ah Glen Miller and Mitch Miller. [Laughters] Did you ever perform with them?

FZ: As a matter of fact, I took music lessons in ah grade school from Mitch Miller's brother.

[Laughters]

Senator Exon: That's the first sign of hope we have had in this hearing.

[More intense laughters]

Let us- let's try and get down to a fundamental question here that I'd like to ask you, Mister Zappa. Do you believe that parents have the right and the obligation to mold the psychological development of their children?

FZ: Yeah, I think they have that right, and I also think they have that obligation.

Senator Exon: Do you see any ah extreme difficulty in carrying out those obligations for a parent by material falling into the hands of ah their children ah over which they have little or no control?

FZ: Well, one of the things that has been brought up before is em talking about very young children getting access to the material that they have been showing here today. And what I have said to that in the past is a teenager may go into a record store unescorted with [$]8.98 in his pocket, but very young children do not.

If they go into a record store, the [$]8.98 is in mom's pocket or dad's pocket, and they can always say, Johnny, buy a book. They can say, Johnny, buy instrumental music; there's some nice classical music here for you; why don't you listen to that.

The parent can em ask the- or- or guide the child in another direction, away from Sheena Easton, Prince, or whoever else you've been complaining about. There's always that possibility.

Senator Exon: As I understand it ah from ah your testimony — and ah ah once again, I wanna emphasize that I- I see nothing wrong whatsoever; in fact, I salute the ladies for bringing ah this to the attention of the public ah as best they see it fit. And I- I think you could tell from my testimony that I tend to agree with them. But I want to be very careful that we don't overstep our bounds and try and me, I emphasize once again telling somebody else what they should see, so I'm primarily worried about- about children. It seems to me, from your statement, that you have no obligation or no objection whatsoever ah to p[rinting]- printing ah lyrics, ah if that would be legally possible, or tech[nically?]- ah from a standpoint of having the room to do that, on the records or tapes, isn't it what you said?

FZ: I think it would be advisable for two reasons. One, em it gives people one of the things that they've been asking for. It gives them that type of consumer protection because, if you can read the English language and you can see the lyrics on the back, you have no excuse for complaning if you take the record out of the store.

And also, I think that the record industry has been damaged and has been given a very bad rap by this whole situation because it's been indicated, or attempted- people have attempted to indicate, that there is so much of this kind of material that people object to in the industry, that that's what the industry is.

It is not bad at all. Some of the albums that have been selected for abuse here are obscure. Some of them are al[ready]- already several years old. And I- I think that a lot of deep digging was done in order to come up with the ah song about the anal vapors or whatever it was that they were talking about before.

Senator Exon: If I understand you, you- you would be in support of printing ah the lyrics, but you are adamantly opposed to any kind of a rating system? Is that correct?

FZ [interrupting]: I am opposed to the rating system because, as I said, if you put a rating on ah the- the record it goes directly to the character of the person who made the record, whereas if you rate a film, a guy who is in the film has been hired as an actor. He's pretending. You rate the film, whatever it is, it doesn't hurt him.

But whether you like what's on the record or not, the guy who made it, that's his art and to stigmatize him is not fair.

Senator Exon: Well, likewise, if you're primarily concerned about the artists ah, is it not true that ah for many many years, we have had ah ratings of ah of ah movies ah with ah indications as to the sexual content of movies and that has been, as near as I can tell, a voluntary action on the part of the actors in the movies and the producers of the movie and the distributors? Ah that seems to have worked reasonably well. What- what is wrong with that?

FZ: Well, first of all, it is- it replaced something that was far more restrictive, which was the Hayes Office. And as far as that being voluntary, appar[ently?]- there are people who wish they did not have to rate their films. They still object to rating their films, but the reason the ratings go on is because if they're not rated they won't get distributed or shown in theaters. So there is a little bit of pressure involved there, and but still there is no stigma on the person...

Senator Exon [interrupting FZ after "and"]: But- but I- I would point out The Gov[ernment]- The Government does not require that. That- that's what- the point I am trying to make is — and ah while I think these hearings ah should not have been held if we're not considering legislation or regulations at this time, I emphasized earlier that they might follow.

I simply want to say to you that I suspect that, unless the industry "[could cleanse?] up their act" — and I use that in quote word again — ah there is likely to be legislation. And it seems to me that it would not be too far removed from reality or too offensive to anyone if you could follow the general guidelines ah, right, wrong, or indifferent, that ah are now in place with regard to the movie industry.

FZ: Well, I would object to that. I think that ah first of all, you- I believe it was you who asked the question of Mrs. Gore whether there was any other indication on the album as to the contents. And I would say that a buzzsaw blade between a guy's legs on the album cover is a good indication that it's not for little Johnny. [Laughters] I- and-

Senator Exon [interrupting]: I don't believe I asked her that question, but the point that you made is a good one, because if that should not go to little minds I think there should be at least some minimal activity ah or attempt on the part of the producers and the distributors, and indeed by possibly the performers, to see th[at]- that that does not get to that little mind.

Mister Chairman, thank you very much.

Chairman: Senator Hollings.

Senator Hollings: Ah Mister Zappa, I apologize for coming back in late, but ah I am just hearing the latter part of it. I hear that you say that perhaps we could print the words, and I think that's a good suggestion, but it is unfair to have it rated.

Now, it's not considered unfair in the movie industry, and I want you to elaborate. I don't wanna belabor you, but why is it unfair? I mean, it's- it's accurate, isn't it? I mean-

FZ: Well, I don't know whether it is accurate, because they sometimes they have trouble deciding how a film gets to be an X or an R or whatever. And ah you have two problems. One is th[e]- the quantity of material, 325 films per year versus 25,000 4-minute songs per year, OK?

You also have the problem that an album is a compilation of different types of cuts. If one song on the album is sexually explicit and all the rest of it sounds like Pat Boone, what do you get on the album? How are you gonna rate it?

You know, there are little technical difficulties here, and also you have the problem of having somebody in the position of deciding what's good, what's bad, what's talking about the devil, what's too violent, and you know, and the rest of that stuff.

But the point that I made before is that when you rate the album you're rating the individual, because he takes personal responsibility for the music; and in the movies, the actors who are performing in the movie, ah it doesn't hurt them.

Senator Hollings: Well, very good. I ah I think the actual printing of the ah content itself is perhaps even better than the rating. Let everyone else decide for themselves-

FZ [interrupting]: I think you should leave it up to the parents, because not all parents want to keep their children totally ignorant.

[Laughters]

Senator Hollings: Well, what- yeah, you and I would differ on what's ah ignorance and educated, I can see that. But ah [Laughters]

FZ: No, I happen to think that you're very educated-

Senator Hollings: I [???] if I was there and to see what they're buying and I think that would be a step in the right direction.

But as Senator Exon has pointed out ah, well by the primary movers in this particular regard are not looking for legislation or regulations, that's our function. And ah to be perfectly candid with you, I would look for regulations or- or some kind of ah legislation, if it could be constitutionally accomplished, u[nless]- unless of course we have these initiatives from the industry itself.

And I think your suggestion is a good one, that they print those words, that would go a long way to satisfying everyone's objections I think.

FZ: All we have to do is find out how it's gonna be paid for.

Senator Hollings: Good enough. Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Chairman: Senator Hawkins.

Senator Hawkins: Mister Zappa, you say you have four children?

FZ: Yes.

Senator Hawkins: Pardon me?

FZ: Four children.

Senator Hawkins: Four children, have you ever purchased toys for those children?

FZ: No, my wife does.

Senator Hawkins: Well, ah I might tell you that if you were to go in a toy store — which is very educational for fathers, by the way, it's not a- a maternal ah responsibility to buy toys for children — that you may look on the box and the box says, this is suitable for 5 to 7 years of age, or 8 to 15, or 15 and above, to give you some guidance ah for a toy for a child. Do you object to that?

FZ: In a way I do, because that means that somebody in an office someplace is tell[ing]- making a decision about how smart my child is.

[Laughters]

Senator Hawkins: I'd be interested to see what toys your kids ever had.

FZ: Why would you be interested?

Senator Hawkins: Just as a point of interest. In this ah total-

FZ: Well, come on over to the house. I will show'em to you.

[More intense laughters]

FZ: Really.

Senator Hawkins: I- I might do that.

Have you ever made-

Do you make a profit from ah sales of rock records?

FZ: Yes.

Senator Hawkins: So you do make a profit from the sales of rock records?

FZ [interrupting Senator Hawkins between "profit" and "From"]: Yes. Mm-hm.

Senator Hawkins: Thank you. I think that statement tells the story to this committee. Thank you.

Chairman: Mister Zappa, thank you very much for your testimony.

FZ: Thank you.

Chairman: Next witness is John Denver.

Senator Hollings: We haven't got'em whipped on this one yet. You got a bear by the tail here, hm? Jesus!

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