Difference between revisions of "Zappa Wiki Jawaka talk:Community Portal"

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I'm frankly starting to think I had it wrong with going "Lastname Firstname"...
 
I'm frankly starting to think I had it wrong with going "Lastname Firstname"...
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== Way I See it Barry, The ==
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The issue of "naming" at this point has two different "camps": the one that takes into consideration that this is a cyber-reference and so names should appear as read, because that is how they will be searched; and the one that really wants this info to be presented as a hard-copy reference found in a library...
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It seems quite apparent to me (and has from the start) that since we are creating a cyber-reference site, not a hard-copy reference, that all "titles" should appear as they would be read: first names first, articles in the front, etc. That's how your computer "reads" them and how it searches for them.
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Ex: ever notice the different results you get when you type "frank zappa" vs "zappa, frank" or "zappa frank" into google? You will find more and better referals with the first, than the second. Because that's how the cyber world works.
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But I'm just a slag, trying to do what Barry wants. I'm not really interested in shaping this wiki according to MY vision. I'll happily make it as difficult to use as Barry wants...
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-- SOFA

Revision as of 06:10, 17 March 2005

Important Notes To Wiki Jawakers

I'm very excited about this website, and the way I see it, after a while, and with help, this is gonna be a very dynamite site!!! I've been contributing (I've started Freak Out!), and I need to address some topics.

  • When editing songs, make sure the time is not inside the link. The time is not part of the song!
  • And what does "Versions" mean on each song page. Would there be links to the song on other albums?

= = =

To add to the above...

Which version of an album gets to go where? To my mind Lumpy Gravy has two "tracks" - Part One and Part Two. I think the naming of sections as "tracks" comes from a CD version but not my particular CD version which only has the two tracks.

What does the splitting of the albums into decades mean? Is this the date they were released or recorded or what. I thought I first bought Burnt Weeny Sandwich in 1969 (I could be wrong).

If this is to be some historical/research/reference kind of thing would it make more sense to list the albums alphabetically. Do you organise the albums on your shelf by decade? If I did I would include Joe's Corsage with the sixties stuff, even though it was a recent release, because that is where it belongs.

Duncan

= =

== More stuff from the first guy ==

OK, I figured out what "Versions" means. (Yes, Duncan, I put my CD's on my shelf in chronological order. I realize I'm a bit nuts.) And according to the little pink thing that I got from Barfko Swill, BWS came out in February 1970. I have some more questions:

  • Which came first: Lumpy Gravy or WOIIFTM? I've seen both being first on different discographies. On the pink thing, it says that Lumpy came first.
  • Look at the link of I Ain't Got No Heart I did above. I had to make a new page so that the link would link to it. "I Ain't Got No Heart" didn't exist, according to the link, even though it does (I worked on it earlier). I guess that links can't link to other parts of the Wiki!!! If so, that is not good!!!!
  • When doing lyrics, like Thing-Fish, do we type in what it says in the libretto, or is that copyright infringement?? If it is c.i., what about the other songs with lyrics that are in the CD booklets? If it is not c.i., then do we type in lyrics exactly as they are in the booklets?
  • I'm adding "Writing/Production credits" to each album page, and "Players on this song" to each song page. (That wasn't a question, but what the hell.)
  • What will we do for the videography? Put in what everybody's saying, and each song that plays, like at "FZ Lyrics & Else"??

Thank everyone for this great site. Later.

--rdnZL


>according to the little pink thing that I got from Barfko Swill, BWS came out in February 1970.

What do they know? I refer you to the ultimate authority.... http://www.killuglyradio.com/discography/album/burnt_weeny_sandwich.php ...who also has LG first.

Duncan

WTF???

About "naming conventions", why does the article (a, an, the) belong at the end???? There is an FZ song "The Dangerous Kitchen" but no "Dangerous Kitchen, The". And why are musicians' last names first? Wouldn't just MAKE FRICKIN' SENSE to put the musician name as it is. Do you think it's confusing to have it alpha'd by last name, but (oh no!) the last name's not first? With all this logic (including the topics of my post above), Zappa Frank came out with an album WHO KNOWS WHEN (but it starts with a "G" (excluding the article because it doesn't deserve to be first)[because the first letter of the first word of an album is really where it's at]) called Grand Wazoo, [the]. I'm not trying to harrass you guys, but I just don't see the logic in these decisions. I'm sticking to "FZ Lyrics & Else" if this doesn't change.

--rdnZL


You are right! I shall not rest until I have persuaded the telephone people to send me a big fat book in which everyone is listed by their first name. I shall insist that my local record store groups The Beatles, The Grateful Dead, The Rolling Stones and The Who etc. etc. together under T for The.

In years to come our grandchildren will come across a list of great composers of the past; Beethoven will be under B and Mozart will be under M and Zappa will be under F. They might wonder if he had any children who recorded with him. Not knowing their names they would read through the long list of names to see if _______ Zappa comes up. When they eventually get to Moon they will have to keep reading the list just in case there are any more. This makes perfect frickin sense to me.


Duncan

Naming Conventions

The way I see it (or if you prefer: way I see it, the):

Going with "Zappa Dweezil" will make it easier to find that name in an alphabetical list. Good thing. It's what a librarian would do.

One thing to consider though (and that I have just recently come to realize - hey, I'm learnin' too!) is that it will then have to be typed out in that way within texts. You'd get sentences like: "Zappa's first son, Zappa Dweezil, went on to become an acclaimed musician." Bit awkward that. Same would go for lyrics for instance. Consider the following sentence: "There's a song on Chunga's Revenge called "Clap, The". More awkwardness. I just had a look at wikipedia.org and they actually go with "Firstname Lastname" for wiki-links.

I've written up a post on Hot Poop about this issue, so as to get some feedback from readers - feel free to discuss it there as well.

Obviously this is an issue that will need to be resolved quickly before we can move on...

-- KUR

I see no problem with Dweezil Zappa in a body of text (with a link to the DZ article). Which is what the Wikithingy article below seems to refer to. The problem comes when you are presented with a list of names (think phone book) when I wold instinctively look under Z for Zappa D (and any other related Zs that might be there. I would have strong doubts about the quality of a resource that did not do this.

Maybe one day we will not need a separate alphabetical list as all the names will be integrated into the text and fully cross linked with everything everywhere. I suspect that day is a very long way off. Should we start off with a Varese wiki and work our way up to someone as prolific as FZ ;-)

Duncan


Duncan says: "I see no problem with Dweezil Zappa in a body of text (with a link to the DZ article)"

But that's exactly where the problem lies. If you write up an article on Ahmet Zappa, and in that page you wish to use a wiki-link to Dweezil Zappa, you are going to have to type the name exactly as the Dweezil Zappa page is called.

i.e.: with the page name being "Zappa Dweezil", you will have to type your text as: "blabla bla [[Zappa Dweezil]] for it to be a correct link to that page. You cannot go "blablabla [[Dweezil Zappa]]" on one page, and "blabla [[Zappa Dweezil]] on another as you will effectively have produced two pages about the Dweez by doing this.

I hope that clears it up for you.

-- KUR

More from wikipedia.org

More reading on wikipedia:

Naming Conventions

I'm frankly starting to think I had it wrong with going "Lastname Firstname"...

Way I See it Barry, The

The issue of "naming" at this point has two different "camps": the one that takes into consideration that this is a cyber-reference and so names should appear as read, because that is how they will be searched; and the one that really wants this info to be presented as a hard-copy reference found in a library...

It seems quite apparent to me (and has from the start) that since we are creating a cyber-reference site, not a hard-copy reference, that all "titles" should appear as they would be read: first names first, articles in the front, etc. That's how your computer "reads" them and how it searches for them.

Ex: ever notice the different results you get when you type "frank zappa" vs "zappa, frank" or "zappa frank" into google? You will find more and better referals with the first, than the second. Because that's how the cyber world works.

But I'm just a slag, trying to do what Barry wants. I'm not really interested in shaping this wiki according to MY vision. I'll happily make it as difficult to use as Barry wants...

-- SOFA