I'm moving what I think is a page edit from SOFA to the discussion area, since I want the pages themselves to remain as they are for now. The addition is an alphabetic index of FZ musicians:
A) Abnuceals Emuukha Symphony Orchestra / Adrian Belew / Ahmet Zappa / Alan Estes / Alan Zavod / Albert Wing / Al DiMeola / Alexander Koltun / Alice Stuart / Al Malkin / Alvin Dinkin / Al Viola / Andre Lewis / Archie Shepp / Armond Kaproff / Arnold Belnick / Arthur Barrow / Arthur E. Briegleb / Arthur Maebe / Arthur Tripp / Artis the Spoon Man / Aynsley Dunbar
B) Barbara Issak / Barry Leef / BBC Symphony Orchestra / Benjamin Barrett / Berkeley Symphony / Bernard Kundell / Bianca Odin / Bill Byers / Bill "Stumuk" Nugent / Billy Mundi / Bobby Martin / Bobby Zappa / Bob Harris #1 / Bob Harris #2 / Bob Narciso / Bob West / Bob Zimitti / Brad Cole / Brother A. West / Bruce Bickford / Bruce Fowler / Bruce Hampton / Bunk Gardner/ Buzz Gardner
C) Cal Schenkel / Captain Beefheart / Carl Franzoni / Carol Kaye / Caronga Ward / Carter Franklin / Chad Wackerman / Charles Owens / Charlie Phillips / Chester Thompson / Chris Peterson / Chuck Berghofer / Chuck Foster / Chuck Grove / Chuck Wild / "Chunky" (Lauren Wood) / Craig "Twister" Stewart / Creg Cowan / The Chieftains
D) Dale Bozzio / Danny Helferin / Darryl Dybka / Dave Aerni / Dave Coronado / Dave Dondorf / Dave Parlato / Dave Samuels / Davey Moire / David Anderle / David A. Duke / David Logeman / David Ocker / David Wells / Debbie / Dennis Budimir / Denny Bruce / Denny Walley / Dick Barber / Dick Kunc / Don Brewer / Don Christlieb / Don Ellis / Don Pardo / Don Preston / Dr. John (Mac Rebennack) / Dweezil Zappa / Dwight Bement
E) Earle Dumler / Eddie Jobson / Edgar Riley / Ed Greene / Ed Mann / Edwin V. Beach / Elliot Ingber / Elwood "Jr." Madeo / Emil Richards / Emmet Sargeant / Ensemble Intercontemporaine / Ensemble Modern / Eric Buxton / Eric Clapton / Ernie Tack / Ernie Thomas / Ernie Watts / Erroneous (Alex Dmochowski) / Eugene Dinovi
F) Frankie Capp / Fred Jackson
G) Gail Zappa / Gary Barone / Gary Kellgren / Gene Cipriano / Gene Estes / Geordie Hormel / George Duke / George Price / Glenn Ferris
H) Harold Ayres / Harold G. Bemko / Harold Kelling / Harry Andronis / Harry Hyams / Herb Cohen / Henry Vestine / Howard Kaylan
I) Ian Underwood / Ike Willis / Irma Coffee
J) J.K. Adams / Jack Bruce / James "Spider" Barbour / James Getzoff / James Helms / James Youman / Janet Ferguson / Janschi / Jay Anderson / Jay Migliori / Jean-Luc Ponty / Jeannie Vassoir / Jeff Hollie / Jeff Simmons / Jerome J. Reisler / Jerry Goode / Jerry Kessler / Jessa Ehrlich / Jim Fielder / Jim Gordon / Jim Guercio / Jim Haynes / Jimi Hendrix / Jimmy Bond / Jimmy Carl Black / Jimmy Zito / (Euclid James) Jim "Motorhead" Sherwood / Jim Pons / Joanne C. Mcnabb / Jock Ellis / Joel Peskin / Joe Perrino / John & Yoko / John Balkin / John Bergamo / John French / John Johnson / John Kilgore / Johnny Franklin / Johnny Guerin / Johnny Guitar Watson / Johnny Rotella / Joni Mitchell / Joseph Difiore / Joseph Saxon / Jules Jacob
K) Kenneth Watson / Kenny Williams / Ken Shroyer / Kent Nagano / Kim Fowley / Kin Vassy / Kurt McGettrick / Kurt Reher
L) L. Shankar / LA Philharmonic / Larry Fanoga / Lee Clement / Leonard Malarsky / Leonard Selic / Les McCan / Les Papp / Lew McCreary / Lincoln Mayorga / Lisa Cohen / Lisa Popeil / London Symphony Orchestra / Louie Cuneo / Lou Marini / Lowell George / Lu Ann Neill / Lucy Offerall / Lyle Ritts / Lynn
M) Malcolm McNabb / Marginal Chagrin / Mark Pinske / Mark Volman / Marshall Sosson / Martin Lickert / Marty Perellis / Massimo Bassoli / Max Bennett / Michael Brecker / Michael Urso / Mike Altschul / Mike Keneally / Mike Lang / Mike Mainieri / Moon Zappa / Mr. Sting (Gordon Sumner) / Mt. St. Mary's Orchestra
N) Napoleon Murphy Brock / Neil Le Vang / Nelcy Walker / Nicolas Slonimsky / Nigey Lennon / Norma Bell / Norman Gunston (Gary McDonald) /
P) Pamela Goldsmith / Pamela Zarubica / Pomona Valley Symphony / Patrick O'Hearn / Paul Bergstrom / Paul Buff / Paul Carman / Paul Smith / Paul Humphrey / Paul Woods / Pete Jolly / Peter Wolf / Philip Goldberg / Phyllis Bryn-Julson / Plas Johnson / Prazsky Vyber
R) Rahsaan Roland Kirk / Ralphe Armstrong /Ralph Humphrey / Ralph Schaeffer / Randy Brecker / Randy Thornton / Raymond Kelley / Ray Reed / Ray White / Rex Jakabosky / Richard Perissi / Ricky Lancelotti / Robert Camarena / Ron Nehoda / Ronnie Cuber / Ronnie Williams / Ron Selico / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra / Roy Caton / Roy Estrada / Ruben Guevara / Ruth (Komanoff) Underwood
S) Sandy Hurvitz / Sal Marquez / Scott Thunes / Sharkie Barker / Shelly Manne / Shuggie Otis / Sid Sharp / Simon Prentis / Sinclair Lott / "Sneaky Pete" Kleinow / Stanford Marching Band / Steve Mann / Steve Vai / Stuart Congdon / "Sugarcane" Harris / Susan Glover
T) Taban Szinpada / Ted Nash / Terry Bozzio / Terry Wimberly / Thana Harris / Theodore Bikel / Thomas Poole / Tibor Zelig / Tina Turner / Tom Fowler / Tom Malone / Tommy Mars / Tommy Tedesco / Tom Raney / Tom Waits / Tom Wilson / Tony Duran / Tony Ortega / Tony Rizzi / Tony Rodriguez / Huun-Huur-Tu
V) Vic Mortenson / Vickie / Vincent DeRosa / Victor Feldman / Vinnie Colaiuta / Virgil Evans / Vito Paulekas
W) Walt Fowler / Warren Cuccurullo / Wayne Lyles / Wild Man Fischer / William Kurasch
Z) Zubin Metha
Retrieved from "http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/index.php/Musicians"
- 1 I'm noticing non-musicians in the list
- 2 Have not cross-checked this list yet.
- 3 Have extended the "Musicians" tome
- 4 cross-check complete
- 5 Hold the phone!
- 6 "Musicians" vs "People"
- 7 Where are you editing the "People" page?
- 8 Second names first?
- 9 Re-Sorted List
- 10 The above list
- 11 First vs last names
- 12 Addendum
- 13 "Musicians" Added
- 14 LMK when finished
- 15 Resp
- 16 Okay the listing is complete.
- 17 complete?
- 18 Now sorted by last name
- 19 Resp
- 20 Assumed I was working on the most recent version...
- 21 We are obviously working in the same room
- 22 Goddamn browser cache
- 23 Resp
- 24 Let's use your list
- 25 Precisely my question
- 26 Let's go with 'Zappa Ahmet'
I'm noticing non-musicians in the list
Carl Franzoni, Cal Schenkel, etc...
... so maybe we should name the main section "People" instead of "Musicians"?
--Kill Ugly Radio
Have not cross-checked this list yet.
Hi, Yes, I put the list up, but have yet to cross-check it; so it is likely that a non-musician or two "escaped" my eye. But then I thought, a lot of "non" musicians helped FZ with certain projects: like Pamela Zarubica, and La-LA Human Steps Dance Co. Do we include them? Eric Buxton "performed" with Zappa, but he's not a "musician" per se. See the problem? I left Cal & Carl's names up because I wasn't completely sure whether or not they "performed" with FZ. Does "frugging violently" count as a performance? SOFA
Have extended the "Musicians" tome
I've extended the main structure so that it incorporates not only musicians, but influences and "freaks" as well.
The main structure is now (see main page):
Lest we forget about Varèse, Bartok, Stravinski and the like...
Okay, I think I have the Musicians list down to just musicians. Any omissions, or trouble spots, plaese feel free... SOFA
Hold the phone!
Whilst double checking for related "people", I've stumbled across some 'minor' musicians that need to be added to the list. I am adding them - but, it's going to take a while... So, still much a work in progress.
"Musicians" vs "People"
Still cleaning up this list. But, since Carl Franzoni "appeared" on the Freak Out! release, I contend that his name is should stay on this list - at least, for cross reference purposes. SOFA
Where are you editing the "People" page?
Are you editing the list featured here in the discussion area, or are you editing the People article itself? As mentioned earlier: it's quite okay (advisable even) to edit the article itself instead of the list here in the comment area...
I'm editing the list in the discussion area, as I figured it was not nearly ready to be presented as a "page". I think editing it here in discussion, until we get some kind of agreement as how it is to appear (last names first? First names? Who gets included, etc.) once 'finished' is advisable; no?
Second names first?
The list seems to be sorted by the first name. Surely it should be on the second name if it is to be a useful/serious resource?
Is there a cut off point for musicians? Should it include people like Beck, Jeff :-) from the GTO's album etc. etc.?
PS I am sorting it - give me an hour or two to get back to you!
List resorted 15 March 2005 10:30 GMT
Probably still needs tidying up a bit. Is it supposed to be musicians only? If so you still have Herb Cohen, Tony Palmer, Theodore Bikel etc. etc. listed.
I confess most of these names mean nothing to me - look forward to finding out more about them :-)
A Abnuceals Emuukha Symphony Orchestra J.K. Adams Dave Aerni David Anderle Jay Anderson Harry Andronis Ralphe Armstrong Artis the Spoon Man Mike Altschul Harold Ayres
B John Balkin Dick Barber James "Spider" Barbour Sharkie Barker Gary Barone Massimo Bassoli Benjamin Barrett Arthur Barrow BBC Symphony Orchestra Edwin V. Beach Adrian Belew Norma Bell Arnold Belnick Max Bennett John Bergamo Paul Bergstrom Dwight Bement Harold G. Bemko Chuck Berghofer Berkeley Symphony Bruce Bickford Theodore Bikel Jimmy Carl Black Jimmy Bond Dale Bozzio Terry Bozzio Michael Brecker Randy Brecker Don Brewer Arthur E. Briegleb Napoleon Murphy Brock Denny Bruce Jack Bruce Phyllis Bryn-Julson Dennis Budimir Paul Buff Eric Buxton Bill Byers
C Robert Camarena Frankie Capp Captain Beefheart (See Van Vliet, Don) Timothy Carey Paul Carman Roy Caton The Chieftains Don Christlieb "Chunky" Gene Cipriano Eric Clapton Lee Clement Irma Coffee Herb Cohen Lisa Cohen Vinnie Colaiuta Brad Cole Stuart Congdon Dave Coronado Creg Cowan Marque Coy Ronnie Cuber Warren Cuccurullo Louie Cuneo
D Debbie Vincent DeRosa Joseph Difiore Al DiMeola Alvin Dinkin Eugene Dinovi Alex Dmochowski (Erroneous) Dave Dondorf David A. Duke George Duke Aynsley Dunbar Earle Dumler Tony Duran Darryl Dybka
E Jessa Ehrlich Don Ellis Jock Ellis Ensemble Intercontemporaine Ensemble Modern Erroneous (see Dmochowski, Alex) Alan Estes Gene Estes Roy Estrada Virgil Evans
F Larry Fanoga Victor Feldman Janet Ferguson Glenn Ferris Jim Fielder Larry "Wild Man" Fischer Chuck Foster Bruce Fowler Tom Fowler Walt Fowler Kim Fowley Carter Franklin Johnny Franklin Carl Franzoni John French
G Bunk Gardner Buzz Gardner Lowell George James Getzoff Susan Glover Philip Goldberg Pamela Goldsmith Jerry Goode Jim Gordon Ed Greene Chuck Grove Johnny Guerin Jim Guercio Ruben Guevara Norman Gunston (see Gary McDonald)
H Bruce Hampton Bob Harris #1 Bob Harris #2 Don "Sugarcane" Harris Thana Harris Jim Haynes Danny Helferin James Helms Jimi Hendrix Jeff Hollie Geordie Hormel Paul Humphrey Ralph Humphrey Sandy Hurvitz Huun-Huur-Tu Harry Hyams
I Elliot Ingber Barbara Issak
J Fred Jackson Jules Jacob Rex Jakabosky Janschi Eddie Jobson John Johnson Plas Johnson Pete Jolly
K Carol Kaye Howard Kaylan Raymond Kelley Gary Kellgren Harold Kelling Mike Keneally Jerry Kessler John Kilgore Rahsaan Roland Kirk "Sneaky Pete" Kleinow Alexander Koltun Armond Kaproff Bernard Kundell William Kurasch
L Ricky Lancelotti Mike Lang Barry Leef John Lennon Nigey Lennon Andre Lewis Martin Lickert David Logeman London Symphony Orchestra Los A--- Philharmonic Sinclair Lott Wayne Lyles Lynn
M Elwood "Jr." Madeo Tom Malone Ed Mann Steve Mann Al Malkin Lou Marini Sal Marquez Tommy Mars Bobby Martin Gary McDonald (see Norman Gunston) Kurt McGettrick Joanne C. Mcnabb Kerry Mcnabb Malcolm McNabb Jay Migliori Joni Mitchell Davey Moire Vic Mortenson Motorhead (see Sherwood, Jim) Mount. St. Mary's Orchestra Billy Mundi
N Ron Nehoda Lu Ann Neill Thomas Nordegg Novi Novog Bill "Stumuk" Nugent
O David Ocker Bianca Odin Patrick O'Hearn Yoko Ono Tony Ortega Shuggie Otis Charles Owens
P Tony Palmer Les Papp Don Pardo Dave Parlato Joe Perrino Joel Peskin Chris Peterson Pomona Valley Symphony Jean-Luc Ponty Jim Pons Lisa Popeil Simon Prentis Don Preston
R Tom Raney Ray Reed Tony Rodriguez Johnny Rotella Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
S Dave Samuels Cal Schenkel Ron Selico L. Shankar Jim "Motorhead" Sherwood Ken Shroyer Jeff Simmons Nicolas Slonimsky Mr. Sting
Archie Shepp Stanford Marching Band Craig "Twister" Stewart Bob Stone Taban Szinpada
T Ernie Tack Tommy Tedesco Ernie Thomas Chester Thompson Randy Thornton Scott Thunes Arthur Tripp Tina Turner
U Ian Underwood Ruth Underwood
V Steve Vai Neil Le Vang Don Van Vliet (see Captain Beefheart) Kin Vassy Jeannie Vassoir Henry Vestine Mark Volman Prazsky Vyber
W Chad Wackerman Nelcy Walker Denny Walley Caronga Ward Johnny "Guitar" Watson Ernie Watts Brother A. West Ray White Kenny Williams Ronnie Williams Ike Willis Tom Wilson Terry Wimberly Albert Wing Paul Woods Peter Wolf
Y James Youman Todd Yvega
Z Ahmet Zappa Bobby Zappa Dweezil Zappa Moon Zappa Pamela Zarubica Alan Zavod Bob Zimitti
The above list
I pasted in a long list but the wiki way seems to mess with the layout.
Off to work now so have left the list here...
if you want it in some useful form.
First vs last names
Hello Duncan, I see your point about the alphabetizing by last name; that's how you would look up someone in a "hardcopy" encyclopedia. But computers don't know first from last, they only know A - Z, which is why the list I posted (and have not yet finished) is set up by first name. I guess when I'm finished, if the consensus is to list by last name, okay whatever... And there are going to be names on the musician's list that don't appear to be "musicians". However, my criteria here is whether or not the people appeared on stage with FZ at some point, or whether they are credited as appearing, or being a part of, a recording: i.e. Herb Cohen is credited with playing "cash register" on 'America Drinks and Goes Home'; Theodore Bikel played "Rance Mohammitz" in '200 Motels'. So, tho hard to see at this point, there is a method to the madness. I should be finished refining this list in a couple of days, and will announce when it is done. You may want to wait to see what gets added and what gets taken out, unless you want to redo your list again and again - as I inadvertantly have had to do. I've only made it to the M's listing of last names; more to do! SOFA
Also, I don't quite see how the listing by computer friendly first names makes the list I have been sweating over for the last 3 days any less "serious" or "useful"... We all might want to be considerate in our comments regarding the stuff we find in the wiki. After all, someone took the time to put whatever it is here, in whatever form. Maybe, if you don't "get it", it makes sense to someone else? SOFA
I believe I have added everyone who has ever appeared with FZ on stage, or was credited with recording for FZ. I'd like to now go back over my list and remove any names that don't belong. Once that is done, the list can be transferred to the "article" page - in whatever alphabetical manner you want... Almost done, folks! SOFA
LMK when finished
Let me know when you've got the list sorted out, and I'll add it to the article-page, including proper formatting.
(... and great work :-)
Sure thing. At this point, all musicians and or participants in live, or recorded, FZ performances have been added. Now I need to go over the list one last time to remove any hidden - overlooked - impropers left over from the original, unedited list. It shouldn't be long now...
Okay the listing is complete.
05/03/15 2:15PM the listing by alphabetical first names is now complete. The criterea for inclusion: the person must have performed with FZ in a live setting, or have participated in a recording session with FZ (where Frank was other than producer, or contributor to an outside project). The Major Resource = United Mutations: Musician's Timeline and A - Z listing. This list may be posted as the Article page in whatever A - Z format pleases the admin. Each name should - and will - eventually have a page of explanation.
Where is Dick Kunc listed? Can not find him under D or K.
I looked under K first because every computer I deal with would find him under K.
Did you read the criteria for this list. Kunc will be filed under another heading. I'm not forgetting him, he just doesn't fit the criteria for this page...
The criterea for inclusion: the person must have performed with FZ in a live setting, or have participated in a recording session with FZ (where Frank was other than producer, or contributor to an outside project).
...not count then?
Also... Ruth Komanoff Nelcy Walker
Dick Kunc's contribution is duly noted (and added). Nelcy Walker is listed, and has been. Ruth too. (Tho' I have added her maiden name Komanoff to her married name Underwood - for those who may be clueless that she is one in the same...)
Now sorted by last name
Here's Sofa's list, sorted by last name (not yet separated per letter, sorry about that).
Please double-check this as the resorting was done by dropping the names in a mysql database (not manually).
I've also made the names in to wiki-links as you can see.
EDIT: I've moved the list to the article page, so we're not modifying on two pages at once.
I did that already! Seperated by letter too! I alphabetized my list according to last names, tho leaving the names in the proper 'reading" order. That's not good either? Oh shit. I guess I'm really clueless as to your designs... Which reminds me, I added the names into their respective "letters" in the people list. That's propbably going to have to change too, huh? I can see how to make the 'links' now. But maybe I should just stop and wait for instructions. I seem to be repeating a shitload of work.
Assumed I was working on the most recent version...
Sofa, I copy/pasted your list as put in the "Re-Sorted List" item on this very page, thinking that was the most recent version.
Now you've got me confused... Maybe I was looking at a cached version? Last discussion here about the list was about Kunc not being in it; upon which you stated that, okay, that too had been fixed. So I figured this list is ready to be resorted by last name.
We are obviously working in the same room
at the same time without knowledge of each other... I completely redid the list last night to reflect the preferred alphabetization by last name - tho' I kept the names in a "readable" condition with first names first. I then out up that corrected list, along with putting the resorted names into the main alphabet list. (check the recent changes page to see my activity) When I go to check my work, I see that you have put in yet another list - albeit linked, which I had yet to do. I was going to do that one at a time, so I could add the individual pages as I went.
But now I don't know what to do.
So I'm not going to do any more until I getter a better picture of what is desired,
Goddamn browser cache
Pardon my french...
Just now I went to the article page -- still names listed by first name. Then did a browser refresh, and poof, there's the correct list ordered by last name. Sorry about that!
As for linking the individual names, that is extremely simple just add double brackets around the name like so: [[Ahmet Zappa]]. That will create a red link to a page where you can then start editing.
So which list do I work from, or do I not? I still don't have a clear understanding of the exact "structure" of this "list" we're trying to create. Do I continue with the list I've been working on?
Questions Questions Questions
Let's use your list
Yeah, better off using yours.
One thing: shouldn't it be "Zappa, Ahmet", instead of "Ahmet Zappa"?
Also: correction on my above message. To link, use double SQUARE brackets.
Precisely my question
"One thing: shouldn't it be "Zappa, Ahmet", instead of "Ahmet Zappa"?" I personally prefer the names to appear as read (Ahmet Zappa over Zappa, Ahmet), but my personal preference has not guided me too well thus far...
The names' appearance is what I'm after; how do you want them?
Let's go with 'Zappa Ahmet'
I asked myself: "What Would A Librarian Do?"
Answer: He'd go "Zappa Ahmet", not "Ahmet Zappa".
So I'd go with that.
In a similar vein, for album titles, where the first word is an article ("the", "a"), I would once again go the librarian way:
not "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life", but "Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life, The".
Deal? Our agreement on these conventions is crucial for the wiki...